Laura Roeder

So I think it is really important that you don't approach this like thinking, oh, I have no idea what's going to work. So we'll just test different things and we'll see. You really have to go in with a strong hypothesis of like, this makes sense. This is what the industry is telling me. This is what customers are telling me.

So I think it is really important that you don't approach this like thinking, oh, I have no idea what's going to work. So we'll just test different things and we'll see. You really have to go in with a strong hypothesis of like, this makes sense. This is what the industry is telling me. This is what customers are telling me.

If you have strong evidence that something else makes more sense, sometimes we make the wrong choice, right? Like sometimes we start one way and it becomes apparent like, oh, we really should be a usage based company. then sometimes it makes sense to make that hard switch. But like Rob's saying, it really can't be a test.

If you have strong evidence that something else makes more sense, sometimes we make the wrong choice, right? Like sometimes we start one way and it becomes apparent like, oh, we really should be a usage based company. then sometimes it makes sense to make that hard switch. But like Rob's saying, it really can't be a test.

It needs to be more a pivot to that direction and then throw it all back if you absolutely have to.

It needs to be more a pivot to that direction and then throw it all back if you absolutely have to.

Yeah, so if you're not in TinySeed, just chat with AI.

Yeah, so if you're not in TinySeed, just chat with AI.

I have an answer. The content you should be doing first is definitely the content that's closest to your content. sale. So you know what they call bottom of the funnel content, like the first thing you want to do with your content is have content for people who are actively looking to buy your thing, right?

I have an answer. The content you should be doing first is definitely the content that's closest to your content. sale. So you know what they call bottom of the funnel content, like the first thing you want to do with your content is have content for people who are actively looking to buy your thing, right?

When people are typing in, I need a podcast hosting tool, you want content letting people know that you are a podcast hosting tool, what you do all the things. So this sounds kind of

When people are typing in, I need a podcast hosting tool, you want content letting people know that you are a podcast hosting tool, what you do all the things. So this sounds kind of

basic but that is actually like I think the best place to start with your content making sure that you're covering because of course you know you said the word content I don't really know if you mean like are these videos are these blog posts like are these LinkedIn updates but whatever it is you have to make sure it's really clear that people know like which problems that your tool.

basic but that is actually like I think the best place to start with your content making sure that you're covering because of course you know you said the word content I don't really know if you mean like are these videos are these blog posts like are these LinkedIn updates but whatever it is you have to make sure it's really clear that people know like which problems that your tool.

So I mean, this could be support docs, right? It's like you need stuff on the internet that answers people's questions and tells them what your tool does. How do you know if it's working? Whoa, that's a much... A much harder question. How do you know if it's working?

So I mean, this could be support docs, right? It's like you need stuff on the internet that answers people's questions and tells them what your tool does. How do you know if it's working? Whoa, that's a much... A much harder question. How do you know if it's working?

I think something that's really tricky about looking at content in broad strokes is we kind of like to do things like look at which content converts. This is something that we will look at on my team. We're like, oh, which blog posts lead to a free trial signup or an opt-in signup?

I think something that's really tricky about looking at content in broad strokes is we kind of like to do things like look at which content converts. This is something that we will look at on my team. We're like, oh, which blog posts lead to a free trial signup or an opt-in signup?

And I think it's a little bit of a BS-y kind of metric because it's like, well, is it really that blog post that caused them to convert? Or is that the blog posts they happen to be reading right before they convert it? So I would actually advise that you not get too deep in the weeds of trying to pinpoint like, oh, this specific piece of content caused this action.

And I think it's a little bit of a BS-y kind of metric because it's like, well, is it really that blog post that caused them to convert? Or is that the blog posts they happen to be reading right before they convert it? So I would actually advise that you not get too deep in the weeds of trying to pinpoint like, oh, this specific piece of content caused this action.

That sounds like Edgar, all the things, all the things.

That sounds like Edgar, all the things, all the things.

But it might be more if you are talking about like, video, LinkedIn blog, yeah, of course, you're looking at like, are those driving traffic for us, how are those performing, but to look at it in a more sort of broad strokes, holistic type of way.

But it might be more if you are talking about like, video, LinkedIn blog, yeah, of course, you're looking at like, are those driving traffic for us, how are those performing, but to look at it in a more sort of broad strokes, holistic type of way.

Oh yeah.

Oh yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yes.

Yes.

But our people are on Pinterest. We drive traffic from Pinterest. Exactly.

But our people are on Pinterest. We drive traffic from Pinterest. Exactly.

And I would say, like, keep it obvious. I think people often overthink this and over engineer this. Like our customers are on Instagram is the main place because Instagram has a massive user base, you know? Don't try to get cute and clever with these little niche... I mean, sometimes there's a niche community that's super relevant to you, right?

And I would say, like, keep it obvious. I think people often overthink this and over engineer this. Like our customers are on Instagram is the main place because Instagram has a massive user base, you know? Don't try to get cute and clever with these little niche... I mean, sometimes there's a niche community that's super relevant to you, right?

Yeah, so Paperbell is a bootstrap SaaS that's been around for four years. We're in the seven-figure annual reoccurring revenue range, and it's a tool for coaches, like life coaches, to run their business. So it has their website, their scheduling, their payments, client comms, all that stuff.

Yeah, so Paperbell is a bootstrap SaaS that's been around for four years. We're in the seven-figure annual reoccurring revenue range, and it's a tool for coaches, like life coaches, to run their business. So it has their website, their scheduling, their payments, client comms, all that stuff.

If you're only for Ruby on Rails developers, yes, be in those forums and lists and whatever. But don't market on Blue Sky. It just launched. You know, like hang out there for fun if you want to. Like market on LinkedIn, on Instagram, on Reddit if that's where people are. YouTube, lots of people on YouTube. Like just don't overthink it.

If you're only for Ruby on Rails developers, yes, be in those forums and lists and whatever. But don't market on Blue Sky. It just launched. You know, like hang out there for fun if you want to. Like market on LinkedIn, on Instagram, on Reddit if that's where people are. YouTube, lots of people on YouTube. Like just don't overthink it.

Go for the most obvious ones where your customers obviously are.

Go for the most obvious ones where your customers obviously are.

Yeah, this one is interesting because he uses the word pipeline. So this makes me think it's a sales situation, right?

Yeah, this one is interesting because he uses the word pipeline. So this makes me think it's a sales situation, right?

Yeah. So, I mean, the obvious one is just LinkedIn. I mean, that's where the vast majority of people are doing it. I know LinkedIn newsletters are the big thing right now that are apparently getting a lot of eyeballs and a lot of awareness. So, you know, we talked about being on the biggest platforms, right? Like... LinkedIn, Instagram, YouTube, depending on where your people are.

Yeah. So, I mean, the obvious one is just LinkedIn. I mean, that's where the vast majority of people are doing it. I know LinkedIn newsletters are the big thing right now that are apparently getting a lot of eyeballs and a lot of awareness. So, you know, we talked about being on the biggest platforms, right? Like... LinkedIn, Instagram, YouTube, depending on where your people are.

And then I think if you're kind of breaking down those platforms, you want to do what the platform wants you to do. And so usually they will have these new things that they'll give a lot of visibility to, like newsletters are a new product from LinkedIn. So they are giving a lot of visibility to newsletters.

And then I think if you're kind of breaking down those platforms, you want to do what the platform wants you to do. And so usually they will have these new things that they'll give a lot of visibility to, like newsletters are a new product from LinkedIn. So they are giving a lot of visibility to newsletters.

The reason so many people are succeeding on LinkedIn right now in general is because LinkedIn is trying to get more like active users, you know, hanging out on LinkedIn. So they're actually showing people what you post in the feed. Like 15 years ago, you could post things on a Facebook page and that would show in people's feed because they were promoting that. But that time is long gone.

The reason so many people are succeeding on LinkedIn right now in general is because LinkedIn is trying to get more like active users, you know, hanging out on LinkedIn. So they're actually showing people what you post in the feed. Like 15 years ago, you could post things on a Facebook page and that would show in people's feed because they were promoting that. But that time is long gone.

It's kind of a tricky balance. It's like you want to be on kind of like the mainstream trends. You don't want to be on something before no one else is there yet. But if it's a big platform, it is good to be on whatever that platform is pushing, which is why like on Instagram and TikTok, people are often jumping around between stories and reels and like whatever the latest thing is.

It's kind of a tricky balance. It's like you want to be on kind of like the mainstream trends. You don't want to be on something before no one else is there yet. But if it's a big platform, it is good to be on whatever that platform is pushing, which is why like on Instagram and TikTok, people are often jumping around between stories and reels and like whatever the latest thing is.

But it actually kind of does make sense to be on whatever the latest thing is because you want to be buddies with Instagram. Don't go against Instagram. Do whatever Instagram wants you to do.

But it actually kind of does make sense to be on whatever the latest thing is because you want to be buddies with Instagram. Don't go against Instagram. Do whatever Instagram wants you to do.

Very small. So we operate on all, like mostly freelancers and part-timers. So we basically have two developers, two customer service people. I have a project manager that works with me in marketing and freelancers.

Very small. So we operate on all, like mostly freelancers and part-timers. So we basically have two developers, two customer service people. I have a project manager that works with me in marketing and freelancers.

The other thing that comes to mind is the book Ultimate Sales Machine by Chet Holmes. I think it's called the Dream 500.

The other thing that comes to mind is the book Ultimate Sales Machine by Chet Holmes. I think it's called the Dream 500.

And he's just like, what would be your best 100 customers? Write them down and call them. And it's like... Oh, yeah, that's that is the most and it's like you're saying it's very I do see a lot of founders that should be doing one on one sales trying to do more like broader marketing stuff because it's more comfortable for a lot of people.

And he's just like, what would be your best 100 customers? Write them down and call them. And it's like... Oh, yeah, that's that is the most and it's like you're saying it's very I do see a lot of founders that should be doing one on one sales trying to do more like broader marketing stuff because it's more comfortable for a lot of people.

Like they would rather be a guest on a podcast and they would like go walk the floor of a sales convention and talk to a bunch of people. But like. the podcast is not going to get them customers and the convention is so the beautiful thing about the dream 100 is it just like cuts straight to the point it's like who are your best customers have you called those people

Like they would rather be a guest on a podcast and they would like go walk the floor of a sales convention and talk to a bunch of people. But like. the podcast is not going to get them customers and the convention is so the beautiful thing about the dream 100 is it just like cuts straight to the point it's like who are your best customers have you called those people

Well, you know what? I recently learned, this is kind of a new thing, is that on meta, if people listening haven't used meta ads lately, you don't choose any targets anymore. You just do the way that all the biggest spenders on meta do it now is just to use Advantage, what they call Advantage Plus, which is just like meta do your thing.

Well, you know what? I recently learned, this is kind of a new thing, is that on meta, if people listening haven't used meta ads lately, you don't choose any targets anymore. You just do the way that all the biggest spenders on meta do it now is just to use Advantage, what they call Advantage Plus, which is just like meta do your thing.

And what I recently learned is they also do retargeting automatically. So you actually, I mean, you still can if you want to, but you no longer need to set up retargeting campaigns because obviously you have your website pixeled and obviously those are smart people to show your ads to. So Meta just does it for you now. So we do. Yeah.

And what I recently learned is they also do retargeting automatically. So you actually, I mean, you still can if you want to, but you no longer need to set up retargeting campaigns because obviously you have your website pixeled and obviously those are smart people to show your ads to. So Meta just does it for you now. So we do. Yeah.

I'm making Blue Sky happen. I want everybody to join me. Come join me, indie SaaS people. We are hanging out on Blue Sky now.

I'm making Blue Sky happen. I want everybody to join me. Come join me, indie SaaS people. We are hanging out on Blue Sky now.

Is this every debate? Tracy's positive, Einar's grumpy. Every debate.

Is this every debate? Tracy's positive, Einar's grumpy. Every debate.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Customer service is just the first thing that instantly comes to mind. For most businesses, customer service either takes up a lot of time or even if it doesn't take up a ton of time, it's a constant distraction, which I don't know Ryan's business.

Customer service is just the first thing that instantly comes to mind. For most businesses, customer service either takes up a lot of time or even if it doesn't take up a ton of time, it's a constant distraction, which I don't know Ryan's business.

But the fact that he's not immediately running to customer service makes me wonder if he has one of those businesses that doesn't have a huge support load. So maybe he's thinking... you know, I don't have to do that much customer service. It's no big deal. But the problem with customer service is that it's 24 seven.

But the fact that he's not immediately running to customer service makes me wonder if he has one of those businesses that doesn't have a huge support load. So maybe he's thinking... you know, I don't have to do that much customer service. It's no big deal. But the problem with customer service is that it's 24 seven.

And if you are a solo founder, you're usually kind of having it on in the background all the time is kind of how I've seen most people operate. So you can get a customer service person, you know, part time or full time, depending on where in the For 2000, for sure, obviously you can scale up the pay and scale down the time. You can get someone more experienced and have them in less hours.

And if you are a solo founder, you're usually kind of having it on in the background all the time is kind of how I've seen most people operate. So you can get a customer service person, you know, part time or full time, depending on where in the For 2000, for sure, obviously you can scale up the pay and scale down the time. You can get someone more experienced and have them in less hours.

So that's just kind of like my immediate thing that for most businesses would save them a lot of time. The other one that I would think to look to is just kind of like a general virtual assistant can be a really, really good hire at this stage. Lots of great people for around, you know, 10 to 15 an hour USD, you can find someone there.

So that's just kind of like my immediate thing that for most businesses would save them a lot of time. The other one that I would think to look to is just kind of like a general virtual assistant can be a really, really good hire at this stage. Lots of great people for around, you know, 10 to 15 an hour USD, you can find someone there.

really good, who knows what they're doing from various parts of the world. And yeah, maybe they're helping with stuff like customer service. Maybe they're helping with, it's just kind of the admin grunt work stuff. It could be marketing stuff, customer service stuff. It could be techier stuff that's more just kind of grunt work instead of, you know, requiring deep knowledge.

really good, who knows what they're doing from various parts of the world. And yeah, maybe they're helping with stuff like customer service. Maybe they're helping with, it's just kind of the admin grunt work stuff. It could be marketing stuff, customer service stuff. It could be techier stuff that's more just kind of grunt work instead of, you know, requiring deep knowledge.

There's usually a lot of that that can be taken off a founder's plate.

There's usually a lot of that that can be taken off a founder's plate.

Yeah, good question. So I have a virtual assistant type of person I have found before on platforms like Upwork or Fiverr. If you look for the more expensive people on those platforms, especially like Fiverr, if you're looking at the most expensive person on Fiverr, that can be a good way to do it. And especially if you have... some kind of like specialty that you're starting with.

Yeah, good question. So I have a virtual assistant type of person I have found before on platforms like Upwork or Fiverr. If you look for the more expensive people on those platforms, especially like Fiverr, if you're looking at the most expensive person on Fiverr, that can be a good way to do it. And especially if you have... some kind of like specialty that you're starting with.

Like let's say you do a lot of video editing. You're like, okay, I'm going to look for someone who has that skill listed on those sites and then they can do other VA stuff for me. For customer service, I would probably look more towards like, a lot of it is regional. So if you're looking in the Philippines, onlinejobs.ph, like oldie but a goodie, still kicking.

Like let's say you do a lot of video editing. You're like, okay, I'm going to look for someone who has that skill listed on those sites and then they can do other VA stuff for me. For customer service, I would probably look more towards like, a lot of it is regional. So if you're looking in the Philippines, onlinejobs.ph, like oldie but a goodie, still kicking.

Yeah, it's still around. There's a site called JobRack that's really good for Eastern Europe. Obviously, there's tons of those now like services, you know, that will hire for you and do the placement, but you're usually paying a huge fee to them. So if you only have $2,000 a month, you'll probably be better off spending your time to source the person directly.

Yeah, it's still around. There's a site called JobRack that's really good for Eastern Europe. Obviously, there's tons of those now like services, you know, that will hire for you and do the placement, but you're usually paying a huge fee to them. So if you only have $2,000 a month, you'll probably be better off spending your time to source the person directly.

And I found when you're looking on platforms like Fiverr and Upwork, my tip would be to pay a bit more. Like, do not look for the lowest hourly cost.

And I found when you're looking on platforms like Fiverr and Upwork, my tip would be to pay a bit more. Like, do not look for the lowest hourly cost.

I have a guy I'm working with through Upwork right now that's doing, we use Divi on WordPress, so we kind of needed someone who's familiar with that system. And he's in Pakistan and he charges $15 an hour. So there's people in Pakistan who charge like $4 an hour. And I'm like, I want the $15 guy, you know? Mm-hmm.

I have a guy I'm working with through Upwork right now that's doing, we use Divi on WordPress, so we kind of needed someone who's familiar with that system. And he's in Pakistan and he charges $15 an hour. So there's people in Pakistan who charge like $4 an hour. And I'm like, I want the $15 guy, you know? Mm-hmm.

I think just doing that, you know, if you have $2,000, it's like, yeah, you have some hours at $15 an hour. So don't feel like you have to just absolutely scrounge into just the absolutely cheapest person you can find. I found it's well worth it to work with people that are still very affordable from a USD perspective, but not that like...

I think just doing that, you know, if you have $2,000, it's like, yeah, you have some hours at $15 an hour. So don't feel like you have to just absolutely scrounge into just the absolutely cheapest person you can find. I found it's well worth it to work with people that are still very affordable from a USD perspective, but not that like...

I have. And I will say it's, you know, people always say, oh, just test your price. And it's definitely not that easy for lots of reasons, right? Like I've definitely been in that position where we have now like 40 different things in Stripe because we followed the advice to test our price and now our tracking's almost stopped and we have a million to edge cases, right?

I have. And I will say it's, you know, people always say, oh, just test your price. And it's definitely not that easy for lots of reasons, right? Like I've definitely been in that position where we have now like 40 different things in Stripe because we followed the advice to test our price and now our tracking's almost stopped and we have a million to edge cases, right?

Like it's never as easy as people make it sound. And he's bringing up a common concern in price testing, which is like, oh, my customers are going to see, you know, that someone else is paying a lower price now. I will say that's usually less of a concern than you think it is. This person mentioned they have like a community that their

Like it's never as easy as people make it sound. And he's bringing up a common concern in price testing, which is like, oh, my customers are going to see, you know, that someone else is paying a lower price now. I will say that's usually less of a concern than you think it is. This person mentioned they have like a community that their

Even in that situation, let's say you have like a really active Discord that all your customers are on. They're not spending their time on your pricing page, usually, because they're already customers. But sometimes you get, it can happen, right? Where you get the one person and they're like, hey, everybody, did you know that this company now is like, we paid 50 and it's just 40.

Even in that situation, let's say you have like a really active Discord that all your customers are on. They're not spending their time on your pricing page, usually, because they're already customers. But sometimes you get, it can happen, right? Where you get the one person and they're like, hey, everybody, did you know that this company now is like, we paid 50 and it's just 40.

But if you have that type of community, you're usually very tightly involved with it as the founder. And just be transparent. It's like, yeah, we're running a business. This is a test that we're doing. If it rolls out, we'll see if we might change pricing for existing customers as well. don't announce it in advance.

But if you have that type of community, you're usually very tightly involved with it as the founder. And just be transparent. It's like, yeah, we're running a business. This is a test that we're doing. If it rolls out, we'll see if we might change pricing for existing customers as well. don't announce it in advance.

Don't go into your community and be like, hey, everybody, we're going to test out a lower price. But it's very, very rare that you will get any kind of backlash from existing customers. And if it's one-on-one, we'll just offer it. So if we're running some sort of promotion...

Don't go into your community and be like, hey, everybody, we're going to test out a lower price. But it's very, very rare that you will get any kind of backlash from existing customers. And if it's one-on-one, we'll just offer it. So if we're running some sort of promotion...

And one of our existing customers sees it, we'll either offer them that promotion, you know, just in an email or we'll be like, oh, we can give you this, you know, that was just for new customers, but we'll give you this other discount instead, something like that. You can just handle it on a case by case, one on one basis.

And one of our existing customers sees it, we'll either offer them that promotion, you know, just in an email or we'll be like, oh, we can give you this, you know, that was just for new customers, but we'll give you this other discount instead, something like that. You can just handle it on a case by case, one on one basis.

Yeah, I think, you know, he was asking about testing different pricing models. And it brings up one of just the hard things about being a bootstrap business is you just you don't have enough volume to test something like pricing model. Like your pricing model usually means a completely different product.

Yeah, I think, you know, he was asking about testing different pricing models. And it brings up one of just the hard things about being a bootstrap business is you just you don't have enough volume to test something like pricing model. Like your pricing model usually means a completely different product.

Yes, for the third time, apparently. Fourth time. The fourth time.

Yes, for the third time, apparently. Fourth time. The fourth time.

back end, right, testing some, you know, usage versus flat rate plans, there's a huge amount of technical work involved. And for you to be able to like maintain both those versions, and then actually test them against each other, you're just not going to have to, you're not going to have enough volume to do that. And you don't have enough volume to test a lot of things. I

back end, right, testing some, you know, usage versus flat rate plans, there's a huge amount of technical work involved. And for you to be able to like maintain both those versions, and then actually test them against each other, you're just not going to have to, you're not going to have enough volume to do that. And you don't have enough volume to test a lot of things. I