Lee Gelernt
speaker
55 appearances
4 recordings
1 series
first heard Mar 2025
last heard Apr 2025
Lee Gelernt’s voice in public audio — every appearance, attributed to the second.
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Appearances
Yes, sorry Rachel. Yeah, they, they were in. Real danger absolutely real danger. We had been hearing the night before that they were getting these notices and that they would be removed that night or the next day.
and then we found out they were on buses so we did what we could do unfortunately the spring court stepped in what was remarkable is that the government had been going around the country saying we get the supreme court said we have to give notice and we will give reasonable notice i think we were even shocked that it turned out that the government was giving them notice
12 to 24 hours in advance, unrepresented people, a form only in English that did not tell them they had a right to contest what was happening, much less how long they had to do it or how to do it. Under no conceivable understanding of what the Supreme Court said when it said these individuals are entitled to due process and notice, was this sufficient?
The administration is just going about trying to evade judicial review in any way they can, notwithstanding even Supreme Court rulings.
Yeah. You're absolutely right, Rachel. I mean, the one core part of due process is you will get notice of what the government's trying to do to you and the ability to contest it. And the Supreme Court was really clear on April 7th, the first time this issue was up there. It said the notice must be sufficient to act. The Supreme Court put in the word actually.
Actually get into court to contest what's happening. At this point, these are just unilateral allegations by our government that you should spend the rest of your life potentially in a foreign prison. These are Venezuelans being sent to El Salvador potentially for the rest of their lives and not having the ability to contest what's going on.
The United States government, if they feel like what they're doing is lawful, should have no problem putting it before a court and letting a court decide. Yet every single chance they get, they're trying to evade judicial review.
We are filing all over the country because they will never tell us who they're going to try and do this to or give advance notice in complete defiance of what the Supreme Court has said.
Well, that's great. And because, you know, one of the things that I think is now starting to resonate with people is they say, well, I'm not a gang member. I can't be sent. But if there's no due process and they pick you up and you have no chance to contest it, then anybody literally can end up for the rest of their life in El Salvador.
And I think that's why due process is so important for everyone. Everyone needs to be paying attention to the Trump administration, eliminating basic bedrocks that have been a part of this country for over 200 years.
Thank you, Rachel.
Thanks, Rachel.
Yeah, a few things. I mean, so first of all, your introduction, I think, hit it right where this is serious business and we're in a very serious place. And I think you're right about the way the judge wrote it. I think he's writing for more than just the lawyers, more than just law professors. He's trying to talk to the American public about what it would mean if court orders are violated.
And I think the other thing he said, which is really important is because I've been sitting there in court, obviously, for all these hearings is he has given the government time and time again, the opportunity to explain themselves. And they've simply refused. The most important thing from our standpoint is.
I'm gonna let other people get into whether we're at a constitutional crisis now or approaching it and what it means for the rule of law in a larger sense. The most important thing for me today was that the court said, look, they can still get out from under this if they do the right thing and bring these men back. And obviously everyone's focused
on Kilmer right now, and that's critically important that he be brought back. But in our case, there were hundreds of Venezuelan men who were wrongfully sent to this prison and are there now. And I think Judge Boasberg saying, look, as bad as this was, I don't need to go through with all this if you just do the right thing and bring these men back.
Unfortunately, the government has already appealed his order. His order came out this afternoon. They've already appealed it rather than saying, OK, we'll do the right thing and bring these men back.
Yeah, I'm glad you said that, Rachel. That's absolutely right. The judge has gone out of his way to make clear that he is not ordering these men to be released on U.S. streets. If they've committed crimes, they could be prosecuted. They can be detained under immigration laws and they can be removed under immigration laws.
But they can't be sent to a foreign prison potentially for the rest of their lives without due process. What he is saying is bring them back to the U.S., give them due process, and if ultimately they're deported under the immigration laws, then they're deported under the immigration laws.
But he is not by any means saying they should be free to be out of detention until they have due process that can prove that they're not gang members. That's exactly right. I mean, there's a false choice going on here, where it's we either send them to this brutal Salvadoran prison for the rest of their lives, or we let them out on US streets. That's not what's going on.
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