Lewis Goodall

You'd like to, if it came to that.

There will be no coronation.

I don't know how many more times I can say yes.

No, I know.

Look, I'm like the Labour left.

Can't say yes for an answer.

Just finally, what's the biggest philosophical difference between you and Burnham, would you say?

And that's why I'm in Westminster.

Is this all part, Wes, as Peter Mandelson says?

It's not all part of your midlife crisis, is it?

Your early midlife crisis that he's accused you of having?

Well, I think he is, I think it's fair to say, a man unburdened.

You can't say he's not a politician saying what he thinks.

He is.

Whatever you think of the two men, such a contrast with Keir Starmer, precisely for that reason.

Precisely because, for good or ill, and maybe it's a bit of both...

He is a politician to his fingertips.

A politician, whatever he says, who seems to be on a bit of a journey.

His great hero, the Australian Labour leader and Prime Minister, Paul Keating, reportedly told him that he should never waste a minute in politics.

Whatever you think of him, by placing himself so centrally in the arena, in the conversation, the gamble he's taken, clearly, in his own mind at least, he is following Keating's advice.