Lewis Goodall

Did companies in decades gone by not do that?

I'm not saying it's right.

Well, I have to say that parallel, like what you were talking about just now, is deeply imperial, right?

When you said, you know, when people like in, you know, Sam Clarke, Amthropic or others, they will do it.

When they basically say, look, there's an easy way and a hard way of doing it.

You know, the easy way is you basically let us have all the power and we will create this utopia for you.

Or if we don't, then China or Google or whoever will come along and say, I mean, as you say, that is Empire 101, right?

I mean, that's what the British Empire goes in all over the world.

You know, that's how India is accumulated by Britain, right?

It's not through the down the barrel of a gun or it's kind of partly that.

It's also these people kind of

submit to some extent you know the indian princes submit to the british empire because they and the british the east india company which the east india company feels a lot like a lot of these yes exactly it was a company just as these entities are and and and they do it because you basically offer they say you don't we will create something better for you yeah if you allow us all of the power and all of the resources and maybe you get a little bit i mean that is deeply imperial

And also, as you say, the resource extraction is unbelievably profound in a way that I don't think...

I don't think we kind of like sort of understand.

And you talk about a bit in the book about, I mean, just the extent to which the sheer energy consumption, which is now being used and which is projected to sort of go off the charts in order to power these ever more powerful models that require not just,

As I say, that's just Meta.

Methane being even more damaging in terms of global warming than carbon dioxide.

And it seems to me that it's not as if, you know, human society and human politics has not managed, obviously, you know, profound technological change in the past.

Industrial revolution, we had companies being, you know, in many ways sort of moving so quickly to escape regulation.

We know everything that happened from that.