Lisa Phillips

Yes.

You just, you just summed it up right there.

And that's why I spoke out originally.

And you're, you're, I understand this is 15 to 20 years later for a lot of us survivors.

So back then we were kind of figuring things out, but we had no idea the magnitude of what really was going on.

And we wanted to get on with our lives.

And most of us, we got on with our lives, became mothers.

And a lot of us work in this advocacy world or became therapists and

And, but it wasn't until he died in 2019.

I mean, until he died, it was when I realized, okay, wait a second, now I feel safe enough to start like understanding what happened to me back then.

It was always so confusing and there was never anyone to really talk to about it.

So it was Virginia Giuffre who spoke out and said, I was trafficked to, she has a long list of men.

And when she was saying these men, I remember seeing some of those men

So I believed her and I had a friend also who was trafficked to the same one.

And so I said, you know, I want to support this woman and not knowing what I was getting into at the time.

And I started speaking out of documentaries and then slowly I had to start telling my story and I wasn't ready for it because I had so much to support the other women.

I wasn't really ready to start saying I was abused too because

I didn't understand my role in it.

I always felt like it was my fault and I didn't know how to get out of it.

I just was so confused about it until we start learning about the grooming and how all these young women were just groomed by him masterfully, masterfully manipulated and groomed by the best of all time who had enablers and all these other people helping him.