Lisa Phillips

started to figure out something's going on.

And that's when the Vanity Fair article was released with him flying with Bill Clinton to South Africa, Kevin Spacey.

And, and then shortly after he was arrested.

So he started unraveling through those years and getting more exposed in the, in that world and people starting to figure things out.

And then of course the major coverups that were happening.

Yes.

You just, you just summed it up right there.

And that's why I spoke out originally.

And you're, you're, I understand this is 15 to 20 years later for a lot of us survivors.

So back then we were kind of figuring things out, but we had no idea the magnitude of what really was going on.

And we wanted to get on with our lives.

And most of us, we got on with our lives, became mothers.

And a lot of us work in this advocacy world or became therapists and

And, but it wasn't until he died in 2019.

I mean, until he died, it was when I realized, okay, wait a second, now I feel safe enough to start like understanding what happened to me back then.

It was always so confusing and there was never anyone to really talk to about it.

So it was Virginia Giuffre who spoke out and said, I was trafficked to, she has a long list of men.

And when she was saying these men, I remember seeing some of those men

So I believed her and I had a friend also who was trafficked to the same one.

And so I said, you know, I want to support this woman and not knowing what I was getting into at the time.