Logan Urie
Appearances
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Only Dating Advice You'll Ever Need
So what I notice, I like to look back at Sex and the City because it's obviously pre-apps. And even looking at Girls, which is also mostly pre-apps, I think you can find that people in New York were struggling with dating in their 20s. And so I think there's an interesting thing going on where things that have always been hard about dating, like I didn't hear back from this person.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Only Dating Advice You'll Ever Need
The person I like doesn't like me back. I don't know how to tell someone that I like them without fear of rejection. Those are part of dating culture. But right now, dating culture is being equated with dating apps. And so some things that are hard about dating and have always been hard about dating are being blamed on the technology.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Only Dating Advice You'll Ever Need
Yeah, and so the reason why I've been thinking about this lately is I've been doing, I love Reddit. And so I was reading a lot on Reddit about people going to IRL dating events, right? That's very popular right now. In real life is what that means. In real life dating events. So this person wrote, oh, yeah, I went to that speed dating event, but everyone was just focused on a couple hot people.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Only Dating Advice You'll Ever Need
It felt like online dating. And that was kind of an aha moment for me because how I would have written that is this reflects how dating is in general, which is a lot of people are all interested in the same attractive person. But for that person who I presume is younger than me, that's They thought this is similar to online dating.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Only Dating Advice You'll Ever Need
And so it really was that moment for me of, oh, people of this generation, let's talk about Gen Z, are really equating everything that's hard about dating in general with dating apps. And I think that's really interesting because there was an article in The Atlantic by Faith Hill a few months ago called People Are Nostalgic for a Time of Dating That Never Existed. It's true.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Only Dating Advice You'll Ever Need
So it's like, if there were no apps, things would be so much better or everything was great before we had texts. And it's like, no, dating is always really hard. It's like, this is who I am as a person. You are going to evaluate me and decide if you want to be with me or not. It doesn't matter what technology you're using. It just hurts to be rejected.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Only Dating Advice You'll Ever Need
And so I definitely think people are having a hard time right now. There's burnout. There's a lot of things that are challenging. But I also want people to know that that is a part of putting yourself out there and risk being rejected. And some of it is the tech, but a lot of it is just human nature. That's true.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Only Dating Advice You'll Ever Need
Oh, no. People are having a hard time. Absolutely.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Only Dating Advice You'll Ever Need
So what you said reminded me of this really helpful term, which is that researchers used to refer to relationshiping which is the experience of going from meeting a new person and having that turn into a romantic relationship. And now they refer to relation shopping, which is shopping for a potential partner the way that you would shop for any other product.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Only Dating Advice You'll Ever Need
And so if you were shopping for Bluetooth headphones, you might say, how much do they weigh? How long is the battery life? How much do they cost? And then you'd look for something online that meets those specs. And people sometimes try to do that with online dating, but... people are not digital goods. People are not things that are just a combination of all of their different traits, right?
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Only Dating Advice You'll Ever Need
That's why matchmaking is so hard. That's why finding your person is so hard because we're so much more than our height, our weight, our religion and things like that. And it's really when I am in front of you on a date, what side of me do you bring out? What's the dynamic between the two of us?
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Only Dating Advice You'll Ever Need
And so really a lot of the work I try to do with my clients is moving people away from relation shopping and have them actually tune into how do I feel when I'm around the person? What side of me do they bring out? And moving from the checklist mindset to really an experiential mindset of how does it feel to be with that person?
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Only Dating Advice You'll Ever Need
So a metaphor that I find helpful here is to think about your dating app and who you see on Hinge as a club, like a nightclub. Okay. And then the way that you set your filters is the bouncer for the club. And so when people go on and they make their profile, they're not thinking that hard about it. They're just like, oh... six feet or taller? Sure, that sounds great.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Only Dating Advice You'll Ever Need
I'd love to meet a six foot guy. And then they put that as their filter. And then suddenly they're like, why is there no one in my club? Where are all the guys? And it's like, well, you filtered out 86% of men who are under six feet tall. And now you're wondering why I'm having a hard time. And so people are creating really harsh filters and then not seeing a bunch of people.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Only Dating Advice You'll Ever Need
So it's definitely related to filters because I had a post on Instagram about how women are filtering out short guys. And then the guys complain and they're like, Yes, I'm being filtered out. And then the women's complain and they're like, well, you have really harsh age filters and you're filtering out women under 35 or whatever they say.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Only Dating Advice You'll Ever Need
And so it's definitely happening across the board because people are really having these bouncers that are not letting anyone into the club. So for the singles party that I had, it was a straight dating event, 27 women, 27 men. And when they came together, 70 dates came out of it because you could match with more than one person. Yep. And then afterwards- Was anyone left with a no? Yes.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Only Dating Advice You'll Ever Need
Oh, that seems so harsh. I hate that. It was hard. Oh.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Only Dating Advice You'll Ever Need
So you have this dating event. Yes. 27 people, 70 matches. Oh, yeah. 54 people, 70 matches. And then afterwards, I sent them all a survey and I said, the person who you matched with, would you have said yes to them on a dating app? And many people said no. Oh. Not because I wouldn't have been interested in them, but they wouldn't have shown up on my app in the first place.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Only Dating Advice You'll Ever Need
they would have been filtered out by age, height, religion, or how far they live from me. And this is such an important point for people to realize is that if you were at a bar and you sat across from a guy and you had an amazing conversation- Or a gal. Or a gal. He had the cutest face. Or they. She had the cutest face. They had the cutest face and you had a great conversation.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Only Dating Advice You'll Ever Need
And then they stood up and their body type or their height was different from what you expected, you'd likely still want to see them again. Yes. But When you set your filters to really make it so strict and to have this bouncer keep them out of your club, you're not even getting the chance to meet them in the first place.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Only Dating Advice You'll Ever Need
So my old advice for this used to be to expand your filters and to get less picky. So that's not what we should do? Well, in my dating class, I realized that a percentage of the population is also not picky enough. So for the majority of people... How the hell do I know? It basically is things like, do you feel like you have too many options and that you're getting overwhelmed?
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Only Dating Advice You'll Ever Need
And is that leading to burnout? Or do you consistently feel like you're holding up your phone saying, where's my wife? Where's my husband? Where's my significant other? I don't have enough matches. Got it. And it also is a mindset shift where are you somebody who's constantly finding flaws in other people?
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Only Dating Advice You'll Ever Need
Or are you someone who keeps saying things like, well, they didn't treat me that well, but they pursued me? But most people I work with do tend to be on the too picky side. And for them, I would say if you remove all filters, that's going to be chaotic. But look at your age filters. Can you go up a little bit in the maximum? Can you go down a little bit in the minimum?
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Only Dating Advice You'll Ever Need
Look at your geography filter. Can you make that broader? What are other ways that you're filtering people out? And can you actually focus less on that and focus more on the things that really matter? Yeah.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Only Dating Advice You'll Ever Need
So one thing that we found in our research at Hinge that I use a lot in my coaching is that when women feel very overwhelmed, it's often because they don't feel like they're in the driver's seat of their dating life. Hmm. And so they say, oh yeah, I don't comment on anyone's photos. I don't send any likes. Why would I? I'm getting so many incoming messages.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Only Dating Advice You'll Ever Need
And then I say to them, that's like saying, oh, I really want to find my dream job, but I'm only responding to the LinkedIn messages that recruiters are sending me. No one has ever gotten their dream job by waiting for an incoming message from a recruiter. You have to go out and look for it.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Only Dating Advice You'll Ever Need
And so what we found in our research is that the more that you're in the driver's seat, the more that you feel like you are pursuing people and that you're going after what you want, the less burned out you feel.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Only Dating Advice You'll Ever Need
So this is something that I started noticing around 10 years ago where people feel like they want to date on their phone. And one of the main reasons is I know who's single. I know who might be interested. And if the person rejects me, it's way easier to just not hear back from someone than to have someone to your face say, I'm not interested. Well, I actually would take this a step deeper.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Only Dating Advice You'll Ever Need
Yeah. So one thing I do want to say to Hannah is that's absolutely what I'm seeing in general. And I feel that this is something that we've really seen in our hinge research on Gen Z. And so I did a bunch of research with Gen Z. And if you look online, there's a lot of things about how they love dark humor and they're very nihilistic. And so I thought, oh, they're the most pragmatic generation.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Only Dating Advice You'll Ever Need
They're not going to be that romantic, but that's not what we found. We found that Gen Z was actually 39% more likely than millennials to say that they believe in a soulmate and that there's one person out there for you. So we have this generation that's very idealistic and looking for their own rom-com. Yet at the same time, they're crippled by their fear of rejection.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Only Dating Advice You'll Ever Need
And this was made even worse by the pandemic. And there's lots of research to support this, that they weren't having in-person conversations. They weren't dealing with conflict face-to-face. And so they want love, but many of them say that they're not willing to put themselves out there because of fear of rejection. Well, how the hell are you going to meet somebody if you won't put yourself out?
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Only Dating Advice You'll Ever Need
Exactly. And it doesn't matter if you first met on an app or if you first met through friends. Once you're on the date, you're on the date. Who cares how you met? And you need to have hard conversations. Who are you? What are you looking for? And so I really feel like something that I'm nervous about for people in the future is if you won't take risks, if you're not
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Only Dating Advice You'll Ever Need
willing to put yourself out there and get rejected? How are you ever going to get what you want? Do you see this with both men and women? Oh, yeah. This research was really across all genders, and we found that a lot of people are holding themselves back. 56% of people are not pursuing a particular romantic interest because of fear of rejection. Wow. even though they want it.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Only Dating Advice You'll Ever Need
Yes, because do you know Sherry Turkle? She's a Harvard professor and she's been studying online behavior for a long time. And so I spoke to her about 10 years ago and she just talked about the fact that people now don't know how to have these hard conversations. They don't know how to apologize in person. They don't have to face the consequences.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Only Dating Advice You'll Ever Need
And I think that it's having a lot of impacts, both in terms of things like ghosting, where you can really leave someone hanging and you don't have to deal with their hurt feelings, but then also in not taking a risk.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Only Dating Advice You'll Ever Need
I haven't specifically heard that, but that is something where I would really... recommend that the person take a look at their own behavior and really do a relationship audit and sit there and say, who are the people I've dated in the past? What were they like? What did I like about that relationship? What did I not like? What side of me did they bring out?
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Only Dating Advice You'll Ever Need
What do I want to take forward into the future and what do I want to do differently? And then really use that to make more informed choices in the future. And of course, sometimes exes get back together, but I feel like reading between the lines of your questions, it's not necessarily that this was such a good match for them. It was more that it's safer and it's something that they already know.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Only Dating Advice You'll Ever Need
And so for those people, I would say, are you doing the safe thing? And how can you actually use your 20s as a time of experimentation? And that's one of the things I say over and over to people is date like a scientist because A scientist has a hypothesis and then they test it and they're willing to be proven right or wrong.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Only Dating Advice You'll Ever Need
And I feel like a lot of times people just come to me and they say, Logan, I know exactly what I want. I want a five, six skinny redhead. Help me find her. And I was like, you think you know what you want, but you're wrong. Let's actually experiment. And why don't you date someone totally different and see how that feels? I do that for women who are obsessed with dating tall guys.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Only Dating Advice You'll Ever Need
I'm like, go on some date with some short guys and see how it feels. And so For your daughter's friends and for anyone listening, what are the assumptions you're making about who you want to be with and how can you actually test that by dating other types of people? And so often with my clients, they'll come to me and they'll say, you know, I went on this date and he's not really my type.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Only Dating Advice You'll Ever Need
And in my head, I hear ding, ding, ding, because I'm like, yeah, you're tight. hasn't been serving you. Let's see who this person is. And maybe that's who you're going to end up with. And for me, do you think that my type was a five foot eight redheaded vegan engineer?
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Only Dating Advice You'll Ever Need
Okay. I'm like, okay, I'm feeling like there is a theme here. I'm just saying it's like the person, I dated a lot of people. The person who made me happiest in my life is someone who has an opposite personality from me has different interests than me, but we just share a sense of humor. He's so smart. I love his advice. I really admire him.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Only Dating Advice You'll Ever Need
And so I think when people get so stuck on this checklist and these superficial qualities, they're actually missing out on a lot of essential pieces.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Only Dating Advice You'll Ever Need
Okay, great. So I have a chapter in my book called Fuck the Spark. And this has become sort of my unofficial motto because I have so many coaching clients who come to me and they're like, we went on this great date. We had so much to talk about. I'm really glad that I met her. I'm not going to see her again. like, what are you talking about? And they'll say, I just didn't feel the spark.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Only Dating Advice You'll Ever Need
And so the spark has become my nemesis because it's this all-encompassing term that means instant chemistry, fireworks, puppies, butterflies, and people have really unrealistic expectations around it. And so there are three myths of the spark. The first one is that If you don't have a spark in the beginning, it can't grow. And that's absolutely not true.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Only Dating Advice You'll Ever Need
Research shows that only 11% of couples felt love at first sight. Wow, really? Yeah. And many people say, oh, you know, we work together and the interest grew over time. Or I wasn't going to say yes to the second date, but then I did. And I found that I really liked them more over time. And so the spark definitely can grow. The second myth is that if you feel a spark, it's a good thing.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Only Dating Advice You'll Ever Need
And that's definitely not always the case. Some people are just really sparky. And I always think about my friend Archie, where the first few times I met him, I was like, whoa, we really have a connection. And then I talked to my friend who I'd never said that to. And she's like, I feel like Archie and I really have a connection. And I was like, oh, Archie's just really sparky.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Only Dating Advice You'll Ever Need
It has nothing to do with us. And so some people just are that way. They give that feeling to many people. It's not about your connection. It's about who they are. And then the third one is that if you have a spark, the relationship is viable. And that's also not true. There are couples that I interviewed for my book. who are unhappily together or now divorced, and they met the right way.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Only Dating Advice You'll Ever Need
They had this romantic we met story, but then the relationship was actually not a good fit, but they were so attached to their origin story that they felt like it could keep them alive. And so the spark is enough to get the relationship going, but it's definitely not enough to keep it going. So what do you want us to know about the spark?
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Only Dating Advice You'll Ever Need
Yes. A lot of the best people out there are people who other people overlooked because they don't spark on a first date. They're not particularly extroverted. Maybe they're not the most charming. It takes them time to warm up. But these are such solid, reliable, incredible partners. And I'm not saying go after the boring person.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Only Dating Advice You'll Ever Need
I'm saying that some people are really, really sparky when you meet them and you feel very drawn to them. But a lot of the best relationships are with people who are consistent and who will be a great partner long term.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Only Dating Advice You'll Ever Need
Yeah, you just really summarized my whole philosophy, which is really that a lot of times people come to me and they say, I live in the worst city for dating. There's nobody good out there. And then instead of focusing on the other people who they can't control, I really encourage them to look at their own behavior, point out their dating blind spots, and then choose a different path.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Only Dating Advice You'll Ever Need
And so I know you know this from writing a lot of books, but you put out a book and you don't necessarily know like what will pop off. Right. But from my book, this concept of the three dating tendencies has become really popular because it's really about identifying what you're doing to hold yourself back. And so it's all about unrealistic expectations. What are the three dating tendencies?
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Only Dating Advice You'll Ever Need
So the first one is the romanticizer. And you'll probably think of different people in your life that are each of these. So the romanticizer is that person who is looking for the soulmate, one person for life. I want the romantic rom-com, we met story. We both reach for the tomato at the same time. And they feel like if I find my soulmate, everything about the relationship will be easy.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Only Dating Advice You'll Ever Need
The second type is, oh, so the first type has unrealistic expectations of relationships. The second type is the maximizer and they have unrealistic expectations of their partner. This is the person who's always looking for something better. I want her looks, her ambition, her family background, and I just need to find this Frankenstein version that has all that and then I'll be ready.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Only Dating Advice You'll Ever Need
And they always wonder, is there somebody better out there? And it's hard for them to ever choose because they feel like I should just keep looking. Yeah. And then the third type is the hesitator, and they have unrealistic expectations of themselves. And they're the person who says, I'm not lovable right now. Why would anyone date me right now?
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Only Dating Advice You'll Ever Need
I'm going to wait until I lose 10 pounds, until I have a more impressive job, then I'll start dating. And so they're not putting themselves out there at all.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Only Dating Advice You'll Ever Need
So romanticizers are hard for me because they feel like I'm popping their bubble, that I'm bursting their bubble. But what I like to tell them is what's romantic is finding somebody and building a relationship. Who cares how you met? If you're in a 50-year marriage, the day you met is 0.0055% of your total relationship. So really get out of the obsession with, I want to meet the romantic way.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Only Dating Advice You'll Ever Need
No, what's romantic is that you met. And there's this framework called the soulmate mindset versus the work it out mindset. It's from psychologist Renee Franny-Young. And what she says is that soulmate mindset people, what they think is if you find the perfect person, everything else is easy. And so when they encounter problems in their relationships, they give up.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Only Dating Advice You'll Ever Need
The work it out mindset is a great relationship is one where you both work to make it great and you can tackle any problem that comes your way. So the advice for them is to shift from the soulmate mindset to the work it out mindset.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Only Dating Advice You'll Ever Need
So probably most of my clients are maximizers because I work with a lot of tech CEOs and finance people and people who are like, yeah, I write job descriptions all the time. And then a recruiter finds that person for me and then they want to do that for dating. So I think a lot of us with online research feel like I can research my way to the right answer.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Only Dating Advice You'll Ever Need
And you're never going to get that with dating. And I actually think that's a really hard shift for people to understand that you'll never feel like, oh yeah, I'm 100% sure that this is the person. You sort of have to trust yourself and then take a leap. So do you not believe in a soulmate? Not at all. I actually don't either.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Only Dating Advice You'll Ever Need
I think there's so many people that you can make it work with and you'll have different stories with different people. But I love my life with my husband, but I could have had a different life with someone else.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Only Dating Advice You'll Ever Need
Of course, you want to choose someone who you can have a great relationship with, but great relationships are built. They're not discovered.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Only Dating Advice You'll Ever Need
And if you really understand that you can build the relationship of your dreams, it takes the pressure off of finding the perfect person. I am definitely a maximizer in my life and it is challenging for me, but there's, instead of the maximizer framework, there's something called a satisficer. So this is somebody who says, I have expectations and they can be really high.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Only Dating Advice You'll Ever Need
But once I find something that satisfies those expectations, I'm going to go with it and not overthink it. So during the pandemic, I needed to buy my first car. And my husband and I said, okay, we want something used, something that's a hybrid. And we want to spend under this amount. We went to two places. There was one red used Toyota Camry hybrid and we bought it. And I love our car.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Only Dating Advice You'll Ever Need
And it didn't spend months looking for the perfect car. I said, this meets our expectations. Let's do it. And so satisficing, we know from the research that they're happier because they don't spend their whole lives saying, what about this? What about that? They say, I wanted to find someone who I was attracted to, who was funny and who was smart. I found her. I'm going to invest in her.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Only Dating Advice You'll Ever Need
That person's so much happier than the guy who spends another decade looking for this perfect person.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Only Dating Advice You'll Ever Need
I love that. There's this quote that I love from Charles Darwin, which is, it's not the strongest species that survives nor the most intelligent. It's the one that's most responsive to change. And that's great advice for relationships because it's not the couple that was the most in love when they met or had the most in common.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Only Dating Advice You'll Ever Need
It's the couple that acknowledges we're going to have a long relationship together and I'm going to change and you're going to change and we need to adapt to that. What about the hesitator? The hesitator who I do have a soft spot for, it's really about getting out there. And it reminds me of your quote, start before you're ready. Yeah. Because nobody's ever 100% ready.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Only Dating Advice You'll Ever Need
And so I have clients who read tons of books about dating. They're excited to talk to me, but they're not going on any dates. And I'll say to them, we can't have another appointment until you have gone on at least three dates because they're not putting themselves out there. And then they say, but I'm so bad at it. I'm like, nobody...
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Only Dating Advice You'll Ever Need
wakes up one day and knows how to play the guitar, you practice and you get better at it. So the only way to get better at dating is by dating. And so start before you're ready, set a deadline for yourself, get some cute outfits, pick some fun first date ideas, have a friend hold you accountable and just start dating.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Only Dating Advice You'll Ever Need
The number one thing is having a great profile. So I can tell you some good profile tips. Let's hear the profile tips. So in our research at Hinge, we found that your first photo should be a clear headshot. No filters, no sunglasses. Just what do you look like?
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Only Dating Advice You'll Ever Need
And then in your photos, you should- Professional headshot, a selfie with friends, with not like- I'm using the term headshot a little loosely, but just a photo of your face where it's clear to see what you look like. Alone? Nobody else in it, definitely. Do you see that in the data that you don't want somebody else in it? Oh yeah, it's so confusing. People are just like, which one are you?
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Only Dating Advice You'll Ever Need
And then they don't investigate. They just say, that's annoying. And they say, no. Okay, did you hear that everybody? Just you. It literally is answering the question, what do you look like? So just show us your face. In your photos, you should have a photo of you doing something that you love. So if you like hiking, if you love playing Scrabble, just paint a picture for us of your life.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Only Dating Advice You'll Ever Need
Then you should have a full body shot. That's something that came up in the research. People want to see what you look like.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Only Dating Advice You'll Ever Need
Not necessarily. It's just something where we looked at the research of the profiles of people who were really successful. What did they include? And what does successful mean? Meaning that they're finding matches and deleting the app because they're in a relationship.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Only Dating Advice You'll Ever Need
You know, it's interesting because that really is what success looks like for people. So these are just tools to get to the point where you can go on your last first date.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Only Dating Advice You'll Ever Need
So I'm laughing at this because pet peeves have become a pet peeve for me, where I get so frustrated with people, where I met this woman a while ago and she was like, Logan, I'm single. Do you know anyone? I'm open to anyone you want to set me up with unless he's a mouth breather. And I was like, what? And she's like, oh, you know, people who breathe out of their mouths. It's so annoying.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Only Dating Advice You'll Ever Need
And so people have this list of pet peeves that are small things that annoy them more than maybe they annoy someone else, but they confuse them for deal breakers, real fundamental incompatibilities that mean that you shouldn't be in a relationship with someone.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Only Dating Advice You'll Ever Need
So a deal breaker would be something like, I smoke and you have asthma, or I celebrate this religion, you practice this other religion, and we both want to raise our kids in our own religion. Yes, we're probably not going to work out as a couple, but people should really sit down, make a list of their deal breakers, And then ask themselves, is this a real incompatibility?
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Only Dating Advice You'll Ever Need
And if not, just move it to the pet peeves list and don't focus on it. And so I never tell people to settle. That's kind of like the big S word in my work. But I do say double down on the things that matter and be willing to compromise on the things that don't.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Only Dating Advice You'll Ever Need
Great. So we've been talking a lot about online dating. So I'll actually shift to talk about how to meet more people in real life. So my favorite concept for this is a framework I have called the events decision matrix. We might want to actually draw it out because it's very visual. Okay. But you basically draw a two by two.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Only Dating Advice You'll Ever Need
So at the top of the line, the vertical line, you say likelihood that I'll meet someone at this event. Okay, so right or left? Like on the top. Oh, so on the top.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Only Dating Advice You'll Ever Need
Yeah. And then on the right-hand side, you'll say likelihood you'll enjoy it. Like enjoy this event. Enjoy this event. Yep. So I created this because I felt like I was working with a lot of busy people who were like, I really want to meet someone in real life, but I'm busy and what event should I prioritize? Okay.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Only Dating Advice You'll Ever Need
So my recommendation for Molly and for anyone else is that look at a bunch of events. Look on Facebook, look on Meetup, follow different museums, whatever you're into. Look and then every time there's an event, you plot it on here. And the things that you think about are what's the likelihood that people interact at this event?
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Only Dating Advice You'll Ever Need
So maybe you love horror movies, but people don't really talk at a movie marathon versus a book club. It's all about talking and meeting. True. So the higher likelihood it is that people meet at this event, the higher it goes on here. And then on the right, you say, what's the likelihood that I'll enjoy it? So maybe you actually don't like reading.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Only Dating Advice You'll Ever Need
So that's not a good fit for you, but you like bike repair workshops. So things that fall in the upper right-hand quadrant are things where people are likely to interact and you're likely to enjoy it. And those are the events that you should go to.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Only Dating Advice You'll Ever Need
And the reason why I'm getting so mathematical about this is because I really want people to spend time at the things that are worth their while so that they don't get burned out. So If you really are going to like the event, then who cares if you met someone or not? You still did something that you liked. And really just take that moment to think about, will people there be talking?
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Only Dating Advice You'll Ever Need
So I actually feel like a Red Sox game could be good for this. That's true, actually. If you are a fan, you could talk to the people around you. One of my hottest tips for meeting people in real life is just get into a line and start talking about the line. How long have you been in this line? What are you going to order? Do you have any recommendations here?
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Only Dating Advice You'll Ever Need
Honestly, it's like people do want to connect, but they don't know how to do it and we are out of practice. And so another piece of advice I have for people is ABF, always be flirting. Okay, what does that mean? It means that imagine that you're at a bar and you see the hottest person and you want to approach them, but guess what? You haven't approached someone in two years.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Only Dating Advice You'll Ever Need
You're not going to be good at it because you're out of practice. So how can you practice flirting with everyone, flirting with the world? And I mean flirting as kind of a catch-all term for interacting with people. So You're waiting to get a haircut and the guy behind you is also waiting. Talk about getting your haircut, whatever it is. Practice talking to people in elevators.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Only Dating Advice You'll Ever Need
Practice talking to people at the grocery store so that when you do meet that person you're romantically interested in, you actually have the social skills to approach them.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Only Dating Advice You'll Ever Need
So I would first want to ask Molly, what are you not enjoying about the first dates? Is it that there's a lot of small talk? Are you just spending time in the shallow end of the conversation pool? How can you actually be talking about more interesting things? So I sit next to people in restaurants all the time on first dates and they are so painstakingly boring.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Only Dating Advice You'll Ever Need
And then I'm just like, please stop talking about how many siblings you have. Who cares? That doesn't define you. Well, what the hell do you talk about? So a trick that I have for people is this concept. It's a Latin phrase called in media res, which means in the middle of things. So you can walk into a date and say, I was listening to the most interesting Mel Robbins podcast on the way here.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Only Dating Advice You'll Ever Need
And she has this concept called let them. And it really made me reflect on this. What do you think about this? getting advice from people, hearing how they think. When you just exchange information, that's so boring. And that's a real reason why people get burned out because they're like, I go on the same exact date at the same exact bar, having the same conversation.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Only Dating Advice You'll Ever Need
My friend Kristen calls this press play conversations. You have a tape in your head, you press play and you say, I went to college here. I studied this. Now I do this. It's like you're fucking bored. They're fucking bored. You're not having an experience.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Only Dating Advice You'll Ever Need
How can you actually have a real experience where you're in the moment processing new things and talking and not boring each other out of your minds?
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Only Dating Advice You'll Ever Need
So I had a client who I thought was so funny. She was really cool, really interesting. I was a fan of hers. And then she told me that she was consistently getting feedback from people that she wasn't memorable or she wasn't remarkable. Obviously, they said it in nicer ways, but she just wasn't standing out. And so I said to her, come in with hot takes. Tell us your hot takes. What is a hot take?
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Only Dating Advice You'll Ever Need
A hot take is why golden doodles are overrated. Oh, I agree. I love them, but yes. Why a taco is a sandwich. All of these different things. And they can be silly or they can be serious. And the point is that you're being memorable, but you're having a conversation that that person has likely never had before. And then you get to see how my mind works and I get to see how your mind works.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Only Dating Advice You'll Ever Need
Another trick that I really tell people to do a lot is to ask for advice. It's not about creating a power imbalance. It's just that such a huge part of my life is asking my husband for advice and vice versa. And I love his advice because I really trust him. I think he's so smart. I think he has a good way of looking at the world. And I think he has my best interests at heart.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Only Dating Advice You'll Ever Need
So if you're on a date, it doesn't have to be something deep. You can just say, Having this problem with my manager, you know, he's giving me this. I really think I should do this. What do you think I should do? Are they able?
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Only Dating Advice You'll Ever Need
See how they think. Can they listen? Can they empathize? Can they take a situation that they haven't been a part of, put themselves in it and give you advice? And look, a lot of people can't do that. And maybe that doesn't matter to everyone, but your partner is part of your life board of directors and you better be able to trust them.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Only Dating Advice You'll Ever Need
I love this question because I feel like it's a chance to really empower him and to talk about what's in his control. So the things that are in his control are having a great profile. We started talking about this before, but you want to do those particular things in your profile. The clear shot of what you look like, having a picture of you doing something you love, one with friends and family.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Only Dating Advice You'll Ever Need
Yeah. and a clear body shot. And then for your prompt responses on Hinge, so the icebreakers you respond to, you really want to tell a story. So show your vulnerability, but also show your silly side and think about it as what are the parts of me that I want to share with someone else to paint a picture of what my life is like.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Only Dating Advice You'll Ever Need
So having a great profile is the first thing that you can do to really stand out, to get better matches, to have the people who you like, like you back.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Only Dating Advice You'll Ever Need
Because it feels like that's part of his frustration. The other thing is sort of training the algorithm on what you like. So being proactive, messaging people, sending comments instead of likes. For people who aren't getting a lot of matches, that's one of the biggest changes that you can make is you can stand out by writing a really great comment.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Only Dating Advice You'll Ever Need
actually scroll down farther in their profile, find something that fewer people are commenting on and spend that extra minute doing that writing exercise of sending a comment that's gonna help you stand out. I think so many people think that they're dating because they're just checking the boxes. I have a profile. I'm on hinge. I'm liking people. I'm liking people.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Only Dating Advice You'll Ever Need
It's like, well, you aren't getting anywhere. So why don't you do something a little different or put in effort in the right places? And then you're going to get a different result. And so I think that I totally hear this person's frustration around dating apps cost money.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Only Dating Advice You'll Ever Need
But I also, if he were here, would want to ask him, are you doing all the right things both online and offline to set yourself up for success?
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Only Dating Advice You'll Ever Need
Really great question. And she sounds really nice. I'm glad she's your best friend.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Only Dating Advice You'll Ever Need
You are so fabulous. I feel like that's an interesting part of the work that I do is that kind of anywhere I go, people pull me aside and be like, my sister's so amazing. Can you help her? It's like, we all know some really amazing single people. And we just have this question of why are they still single? Yes. Is that an appropriate question to have?
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Only Dating Advice You'll Ever Need
Because you're freaking fantastic. I know. I think about that a lot. And when I coach people, I'm only meeting them and I'm only hearing their side of the story. So their homework assignment before they meet with me is that they ask their friends and family, why do you think I'm single? And then they come to their coaching session and tell me what they say. And what do you often hear?
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Only Dating Advice You'll Ever Need
You're too picky. You aren't putting yourself out there. You have unrealistic expectations. And then there's kind of the softy friends who are like, you're great. There's nothing wrong with you. I'm like, well, you're paying me for a reason. So let's talk about what's going on.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Only Dating Advice You'll Ever Need
for that person or the hardest feedback to give somebody because I don't think I don't know about the too picky I don't know about yeah like those things like is there I think it's something like it really hurts me that I can sit I feel like you consistently are choosing people that are not good for you and I don't know what to do to make you value yourself more or take yourself more seriously but you need to run away from red flags that you are just not paying attention to
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Only Dating Advice You'll Ever Need
There's honestly a lot of different stories that people have. Like on the show, there's multiple people where I really had to coach them on being more vulnerable. Our vulnerability is what makes us human and what makes people feel like they can connect with us. But so often it's what people think makes them undateable.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Only Dating Advice You'll Ever Need
And so about a year ago, I sent out this email that says, do you think you're undateable? And what do you think makes you undateable? And I got the most responses that I've ever gotten to any email where people are like, I'm undateable because I have an STI. I'm undateable because my partner in their 20s committed suicide. I'm undateable because I've never been in a relationship.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Only Dating Advice You'll Ever Need
I'm undateable because I've been in too many relationships. Mm-hmm. And then I worked with them on how to kind of own this thing. And so it's going on a date and having a narrative down where you say, this thing happened to me. It was really challenging. Here's what I did about it. You have a narrative that helps you own your story. Do I have to have that for your first date?
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Only Dating Advice You'll Ever Need
No, I don't think you have to talk about this on a first date, but people aren't even going on the first date because they're so worried about the moment it comes up. Oh. And I want them to be going on the date and be ready if it comes up. So there's a person on the show who was disabled as a veteran, and there's a lot of stuff he can't do.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Only Dating Advice You'll Ever Need
And he isn't saying yes to any women who are athletic because, oh, well, when they want to go on a jog with me, I can't go on a jog with them. I'm like, you're an amazing guy. People would love to go on a date with you. They can go jog alone. They can jog with their friends.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Only Dating Advice You'll Ever Need
Like they're looking for a partner, but you are disqualifying yourself because you don't want to have that conversation with them. And then that was my homework assignment that he did on the dates. And... I feel like this undateable thing is really big because it really goes down to self-love. I don't think I'm lovable. I think there's something wrong with me.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Only Dating Advice You'll Ever Need
So for the listener or viewer who is single, this is really an opportunity to get unstuck.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Only Dating Advice You'll Ever Need
If you found out this thing about me, you would reject me. So I'm not even going to meet you. So you can't reject me. And the flip of that is to say, we all have shit that happened to us. I'm not asking for your permission to be here. I'm not asking for your forgiveness. I don't want you to feel bad for me. I have baggage. You have baggage. Your baggage makes me feel safe.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Only Dating Advice You'll Ever Need
Yes. So how I would advise people who are 50 plus is the same that I would say to really any dater, which is everyone comes with a set of problems. Choose the set of problems that you can handle. So I think where people get into trouble is where they think, if I keep on dating, if I'm a maximizer, eventually I'll find someone with no problems.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Only Dating Advice You'll Ever Need
If you feel like all of your friends are married and you've been to a lot of weddings and now you're going to the baby showers and you feel like you're being left behind, this is an opportunity to really take a step back, look at the patterns of behavior that you have, identify some dating blind spots, and then make a different choice for yourself.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Only Dating Advice You'll Ever Need
You should switch that to the mindset of what are problems that I can deal with. And so yes, maybe people have more baggage, but there's baggage that you can deal with and baggage that you can't, and you get to choose.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Only Dating Advice You'll Ever Need
Yes. One thing I do want to say to Jodi and to anyone else who's in this age group is just, I talked about what's harder about dating at this age group, and I think it's true, but I also want to talk about what's easier because I think that can be empowering. So one thing I really found on the show is that there's a greater sense of knowing yourself
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Only Dating Advice You'll Ever Need
I do think that we know ourselves better as we grow up. I'm so much happier in my 30s than I was in my 20s because I'm more comfortable with who I am. I trust myself more. I feel less of a need to get approval from others. So I think that is a beautiful part of wisdom as you get older. There's also less pressure to marry.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Only Dating Advice You'll Ever Need
And so I think that when you're dating in your 20s and 30s, there's so much pressure of, am I going to raise kids with this person? Is my family going to accept that? Well, guess what? When you're dating in this age group, you're not about to have kids with them. So you can choose someone who you might not have chosen the first time around.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Only Dating Advice You'll Ever Need
You actually are open to dating different types of people because there's less pressure. I love that.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Only Dating Advice You'll Ever Need
The first thing that I would do is really reflect on what you want. So you may not want a traditional relationship. There's a big trend of living apart together where you don't merge your households. You don't merge your finances. You can be married or you can be in a relationship, but you don't have to give up your house or your apartment and be open to things working a different way.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Only Dating Advice You'll Ever Need
Another thing is to really know yourself. So what are my patterns? What have I been doing over and over? What do I want to do differently this time? And really what we've been saying, look in the mirror. Another thing is that societal norms are changing. So this came up on the show, The Later Daters, where I would say to someone, you're following an outdated playbook. Stop being so coy.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Only Dating Advice You'll Ever Need
Call the guy back. Tell him that you're interested. Like, you are a career businesswoman, but you're in the corner kind of not expressing what you want. Just go after it. And so sort of understand what outdated models you're currently following. I love that.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Only Dating Advice You'll Ever Need
And if you are married or in a relationship, then you probably have someone you love who could really use this advice.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Only Dating Advice You'll Ever Need
My advice for everyone and not just for dating is life doesn't happen to you. And if that is your way of thinking about the world, you're really missing out. So the client who says to me, these situationships keep happening and nobody will commit to me. Well, they're not happening to you. You are choosing people who are not ready, who are not emotionally open, who don't want to commit to you.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Only Dating Advice You'll Ever Need
And then you're saying life is happening to me. That's being in the passenger seat of your love life and your life in general. So get out of the car, move to the driver's seat, take control of your dating life. And that's really how you're going to find and build the relationship of your dreams.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Only Dating Advice You'll Ever Need
If you are single and you've been single for a long time, take my quiz, find out what your dating tendency is, embrace the fact that you're a hesitator and you need to put yourself out there. Understand that you're a romanticizer and that you're very focused on the we met. Know that you're a maximizer and you're trying to find the perfect person.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Only Dating Advice You'll Ever Need
Own that, grieve it a little bit, and then make a plan to move past it and really find what you're looking for. I love that.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Only Dating Advice You'll Ever Need
I usually don't drink caffeine, but I drank some for this and I'm feeling great.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Only Dating Advice You'll Ever Need
You don't have to convince me. Whatever date you would have said, I would have said that's the perfect date.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Only Dating Advice You'll Ever Need
So I have a different answer for that than I would have had a year ago. So my research has mostly focused on millennial and Gen Z dating. And that's really the focus of Hinge. But then a year ago, I shot this TV show that's going to come out soon about daters over 55. And I had some nerves going into it because I was like, oh, I'm not an expert in this type of dating.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Only Dating Advice You'll Ever Need
But the number one thing that came out of that for me is this idea that dating is a skill. And we're born knowing how to love, but not knowing how to date.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Only Dating Advice You'll Ever Need
Sure, and some of those people might know how to date, but it's just that there's a limited pool. There's other factors, but I really want it to be empowering for people because I want them to feel like, oh yeah, I do keep choosing men who are not emotionally available. Or I am really hesitant to get vulnerable with people and I could work on that.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Only Dating Advice You'll Ever Need
So something that I learned by working on this show is the idea that dating is a skill and you can get better at it. And just because you get older doesn't mean you automatically know how to do it. So it's like you don't wake up on your 50th birthday and know how to make a delicious French meal. You don't wake up on your 50th birthday and know how to date.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Only Dating Advice You'll Ever Need
And so actually just taking this approach of this is hard for me. I've struggled with this. This is an area of my life I haven't figured out, but I can work on it. I hope that for your friend and for other people, that's really empowering because it means it's an area where they can grow.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Only Dating Advice You'll Ever Need
Sure. So I studied psychology at Harvard, and I'm really interested in how people think and how people make decisions. So at first I applied that in the corporate world, and I worked at Google, and I ran Google's behavioral science team called the Irrational Lab. So that's really understanding who we are and how we make decisions, often in ways that are not in our own best interest.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Only Dating Advice You'll Ever Need
But then I'd always had this lifelong interest in dating and relationships. And so at a certain point, I said, this is my dream. I'm not getting any younger. And so I quit my corporate job, which was at the time at Airbnb. And I said, I'm just going to give myself a year to see if I can make this into a career. And so I started by being... a coach and working with people one-on-one.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Only Dating Advice You'll Ever Need
I turned that into research for my book. And what my book does, it takes the best of the behavioral science research, how we make decisions, and the best of the relationship science research, why we love who we love, how relationships work. And I combine the two. And so it's really a relationship book that's focused on the best research and data that's out there.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Only Dating Advice You'll Ever Need
And then from there, I got my job at Hinge, where I'm the director of relationship science. And I get to do this all day. I get to think about dating, research dating, look at trends in dating, and then talk directly to Hinge users and daters around the world about how to date better.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Only Dating Advice You'll Ever Need
So the data shows that dating apps really are helping people meet. Since 2017, the number one way that couples meet is online, and that's research from Stanford. Michael J. Rosenfeld is a sociologist there. That being said, of course, this is technology, and people can misuse technology, and I think it really can create some... difficult expectations for people. There's a paradox of choice issue.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Only Dating Advice You'll Ever Need
And so I would say overall, way more people are meeting because of dating apps. It used to be that you had access to Bill and Belinda down the street or, you know, maybe the person that you worked with. And now you have access to a way larger pool of people. Right. And that's especially helpful if you're in what's called a thin dating market. So we're harder to meet people. And what does that mean?
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Only Dating Advice You'll Ever Need
Thin dating? Yeah, so it's like, it's not about your weight. It's about like the quantity of your pool. And so people over 40, LGBTQ plus folks, and people who live in rural areas, it's like, well, if I'm gay and I live in a small town, how do I know who's also gay and who's single? It's very helpful to be on Hinge to do that.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Only Dating Advice You'll Ever Need
And so it has a lot of benefits for expanding choice, but then people also do struggle with choice. Got it.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Only Dating Advice You'll Ever Need
Yeah, so everything you're seeing, I'm seeing as well. One thing that I will point out though is the average age of getting married is around the country more like later 20s. So it makes sense that the people you know in their 30s are married to people who they met on the apps. The people in their 20s will probably be that one day. They're just not there yet.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Only Dating Advice You'll Ever Need
So I think there are kind of micro differences, but most people in the U.S. do end up getting married. And so that's one thing. But what I'll say is that I do feel like a lot of people are having a hard time right now. And I'm hearing a lot about dating burnout.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Only Dating Advice You'll Ever Need
And I've just been noticing this from a psychological perspective where multiple people, even in the last week, have told me, I quit dating. I'm taking a break from dating. And when I hear that, I'm like, that's a new phrase that popped up recently. And I like to reflect back on Sex and the City because I think it was such a cultural touch. What's the word? Cultural touch point.
The Mel Robbins Podcast
The Only Dating Advice You'll Ever Need
You're going to pick a better word than I am.