Lucinda Creighton

But can I just... Okay, it's your fault.

Yeah, I think Matt was trying to somehow sort of rescue or salvage the situation in his piece today because he's very much trying to contextualise and...

and sort of put it in perspective but like look I mean I think it's always useful to have debate and you know this idea that you can't you can't critique or you can't introduce basic facts to a

to a fairly charged discussion is a little bit short-sighted and not good for our public discourse.

So, you know, Leo always brings a different perspective.

Well, some of us are old enough to remember when he described a particular county in the west of Ireland as a tax scam.

So, you know, Leo has a history of sort of being provocative in terms of how he says things.

Do you think he was right?

Well, on the on on the basis that there is a sort of or there can be a sort of a victim mentality of, you know, Dublin gets everything the rest of the country is forgotten.

Yes, I think that's I think that that that is and can be correct.

And I don't think it's accurate.

And if you look at if you look at the very basic facts around tax revenues, et cetera, you know, urban economic activities and most people live in urban areas.

And it's not just Dublin, it's Cork City, it's Galway.

But actually, when you look at Ireland and our regional development and the balance, I think organisations like IDA have done a brilliant job here.

Like, if you look at the hub of biotech and medical device companies on the West Coast, if you look at the pharmaceutical sector and tech in Cork and surrounding areas, we actually have very good regional development.

The fact, I think the point, or one of the points Leo was trying to make, and Matt Cooper is articulating it in his piece today, is that our dependence on agriculture and traditional rural economic activity

It's completely obliterated.

That's just a fact.

Well, yes, compared to when we joined the European Union.

Well, I'm not sure that he's learned or decided he can't do it.