Lucinda Holdforth

and sort of more gentle end-of-life processes.

Absolutely.

And people think palliative care means you're going to be just left to die.

It doesn't mean that at all.

It actually means, you know, all the time I see in the newspapers someone said palliative

I just saw today in New York, Rudy Giuliani, the big politician there, they said, oh, he's on his deathbed.

He's going to die.

He's in hospital.

Of course, he hasn't died.

He's fine.

Palliative care means not intervening, keeping you comfortable.

And it's a very peaceful thing.

So that's one option that I think more people will look at and we should talk about.

And remember, I'm just talking about options here.

There's also a more controversial option, which some are talking about now, which is voluntary assisted dying for older Australians.

And in fact, there have been very upsetting cases where people in aged care

who are likely to die within 12 months, have asked for the voluntary assisted dying option and been told that their aged care facility will not allow them to do it there and that they will have to leave their home to access that.

Now, that to me seems cruel and unnecessary.

So we need to start talking about these things in a more rational way and actual...

Look, I think that's a bit of sort of moral panic.