Luke Tryl

But yeah, I mean, that wider point is absolutely right.

And the number of times...

I hear in focus groups people saying things like, well, the Scottish government can't do anything on cost of living because it's constrained by Westminster.

And if we were independent, we'd be able to act to do it.

So, yeah, it is definitely an issue which permeates across in a very different way to the conversation we were having about Wales last week.

James, one of the things that came out of the Channel 4 leaders debate, which was a few days after the BBC one, was this claim from Malcolm Offord, Lord Offord, the reform leader, that Labour had offered him some kind of deal.

Yes.

It sounds complicated.

Yes, exactly.

The problem is it's just completely contested.

Lord Offord said, oh, words to the effect of, you and us are bounced up to me and said we need to work together to get rid of the SNP.

Anas Sarwar denies saying those words, said he is absolutely 100% completely in all circumstances guaranteeing no matter what happens that there will be no deal whatsoever or agreement or anything like that between Labour and Reform.

So, I mean, in a way, who knows, right?

We're not going to get anywhere.

They're both saying the other is lying.

But this gets to a wider question, which is, are Labour concerned in their traditional heartlands, Glasgow, Lanarkshire, you know, the post-industrial central belt of Scotland, about...

a right-wing party managing to break through where previously the SNP managed to break through and win votes that used to be for years and years solid Labour.

And I think there is some concern that that is the case and the evidence for that would probably be the Hamilton, Larkhall and Stonehouse by-election to the Scottish Parliament where reform...

were very close to beating the SNP into second place.

Labour won that, and indeed central to Labour's argument at this campaign, saying, look, people keep writing us off and saying we can't win, but we keep proving they say that they could win.