Lulu Garcia Navarro

And so that's what you'd say the Rick Steves philosophy is. It's to take something and come back changed for the better by it.

And so that's what you'd say the Rick Steves philosophy is. It's to take something and come back changed for the better by it.

I do want to pick up on this idea of escape travel versus reality travel. That's a really nice framing because I hear you making the case for a particular type of immersive, respectful kind of travel. And I don't think it's much of a stretch to say that that's not how most people approach their vacations.

I do want to pick up on this idea of escape travel versus reality travel. That's a really nice framing because I hear you making the case for a particular type of immersive, respectful kind of travel. And I don't think it's much of a stretch to say that that's not how most people approach their vacations.

I'm thinking of especially the modern idea of going somewhere simply because you're going to be able to post on social media about it. What do you think of that approach of how things seem to have changed now where the performative nature of travel has taken over or has it?

I'm thinking of especially the modern idea of going somewhere simply because you're going to be able to post on social media about it. What do you think of that approach of how things seem to have changed now where the performative nature of travel has taken over or has it?

In the 1980s during the civil wars in Central America.

In the 1980s during the civil wars in Central America.

Which is a Catholic idea that you help the poor, that you try and give liberation through spiritual teaching. And it was very popular in the 1980s. And he was assassinated.

Which is a Catholic idea that you help the poor, that you try and give liberation through spiritual teaching. And it was very popular in the 1980s. And he was assassinated.

You said three ways that you can travel. You can travel as a tourist.

You said three ways that you can travel. You can travel as a tourist.

A traveler. And then the third one was as a pilgrim.

A traveler. And then the third one was as a pilgrim.

Explain to me the third one. I get the distinction between the first two.

Explain to me the third one. I get the distinction between the first two.

I'm listening to you talk, and the philosophy is beautiful. This idea of communion with the world, with connection with other people. But there is a shift happening in the world right now, I think, towards isolationism, nativism, a fundamental suspicion of difference. We're in a world that travels... More than it ever has. And yet, what seems to be happening is not what you would hope.

I'm listening to you talk, and the philosophy is beautiful. This idea of communion with the world, with connection with other people. But there is a shift happening in the world right now, I think, towards isolationism, nativism, a fundamental suspicion of difference. We're in a world that travels... More than it ever has. And yet, what seems to be happening is not what you would hope.

And I'm just wondering what you make of those changes.

And I'm just wondering what you make of those changes.