Lulu Miller

And when I read it, it just screamed at me that it wanted to be freed from the page, that its words wanted to be filled with air and the spaces between them filled with music and natural sounds. And so we asked Becca, who we've worked with before, if they'd come in and read it. And we asked our sound designer, Dylan Keefe, if he would really bring it to life. And what they made is so beautiful.

And when I read it, it just screamed at me that it wanted to be freed from the page, that its words wanted to be filled with air and the spaces between them filled with music and natural sounds. And so we asked Becca, who we've worked with before, if they'd come in and read it. And we asked our sound designer, Dylan Keefe, if he would really bring it to life. And what they made is so beautiful.

When we come back, we'll see what happens when a song is lost, not just for Sabrina, but for a whole species.

When we come back, we'll see what happens when a song is lost, not just for Sabrina, but for a whole species.

And so I am going to get out of the way and let you hear it.

And so I am going to get out of the way and let you hear it.

This is Radiolab. I'm Lulu Miller. Today, we are dedicating the whole episode to an essay I read and adored called Key Changes, all about song in the animal world and beyond. It's by Sabrina Imbler, and it is being read to us by the actor Becca Blackwell.

This is Radiolab. I'm Lulu Miller. Today, we are dedicating the whole episode to an essay I read and adored called Key Changes, all about song in the animal world and beyond. It's by Sabrina Imbler, and it is being read to us by the actor Becca Blackwell.

Author, Sabrina Imbler.

Author, Sabrina Imbler.

All right. Now, before we end for real, I have just got to play one last very special treat for you because Sabrina initially wrote that essay for a special issue of Orion magazine, all about queer ecology that I guest edited. And to celebrate the launch, we had this Zoom event where we brought Sabrina into conversation with this other voice you are hearing.

All right. Now, before we end for real, I have just got to play one last very special treat for you because Sabrina initially wrote that essay for a special issue of Orion magazine, all about queer ecology that I guest edited. And to celebrate the launch, we had this Zoom event where we brought Sabrina into conversation with this other voice you are hearing.

Nature's music has been the most grounding thing for me. Amy Ray of the Indigo Girls. And we talked a lot about song. Animals sing because they need to find each other. And at one point, Amy Rae started talking about this bird she hears singing at night.

Nature's music has been the most grounding thing for me. Amy Ray of the Indigo Girls. And we talked a lot about song. Animals sing because they need to find each other. And at one point, Amy Rae started talking about this bird she hears singing at night.

And so I had to ask her if she would sing it for us.

And so I had to ask her if she would sing it for us.

We appreciate the adventure. Okay.

We appreciate the adventure. Okay.

That was so great. Thank you. Thanks. Thanks. And that'll do it for today. Big thanks to Amy Rae. Big thanks to Sabrina. This episode was produced by Annie McKeown and Pat Walters with original sound design and scoring by Dylan Keefe. It was fact-checked by Kim Schmidt, edited by Taja Eason, and voiced by the spectacular Becca Blackwell. Special thanks to Dr. Jay Gallagher for his cricket sounds.

That was so great. Thank you. Thanks. Thanks. And that'll do it for today. Big thanks to Amy Rae. Big thanks to Sabrina. This episode was produced by Annie McKeown and Pat Walters with original sound design and scoring by Dylan Keefe. It was fact-checked by Kim Schmidt, edited by Taja Eason, and voiced by the spectacular Becca Blackwell. Special thanks to Dr. Jay Gallagher for his cricket sounds.

Chirp, chirp, if you would like to check out that issue of Orion Magazine. It's called Queer Planet. And you can go to orion.org and type in the code Radiolab when you subscribe for a 20% discount. All right, that's all. Peace be unto you, night birds, morning birds, songbirds, and everything in between.

Chirp, chirp, if you would like to check out that issue of Orion Magazine. It's called Queer Planet. And you can go to orion.org and type in the code Radiolab when you subscribe for a 20% discount. All right, that's all. Peace be unto you, night birds, morning birds, songbirds, and everything in between.

This is Ira Flato, host of Science Friday. For over 30 years, the Science Friday team has been reporting high-quality science and technology news, making science fun for curious people by covering everything from the outer reaches of space to the rapidly changing world of AI to the tiniest microbes in our bodies.

This is Ira Flato, host of Science Friday. For over 30 years, the Science Friday team has been reporting high-quality science and technology news, making science fun for curious people by covering everything from the outer reaches of space to the rapidly changing world of AI to the tiniest microbes in our bodies.

Audiences trust our show because they know we're driven by a mission to inform and serve listeners first and foremost with important news they won't get anywhere else. And our sponsors benefit from that halo effect. For more information on becoming a sponsor, visit sponsorship.wnyc.org.

Audiences trust our show because they know we're driven by a mission to inform and serve listeners first and foremost with important news they won't get anywhere else. And our sponsors benefit from that halo effect. For more information on becoming a sponsor, visit sponsorship.wnyc.org.

Heads up, today's show does include a couple of curse words. So anyway, here we go.

Heads up, today's show does include a couple of curse words. So anyway, here we go.

Okay. All right.

Okay. All right.

Okay, well, I'll play this, and then I don't think you're going to be able to hear it, Lulu. That's fine. Harness the karaoke vibe. You got the proverbial sweaty beer in your hand?

Okay, well, I'll play this, and then I don't think you're going to be able to hear it, Lulu. That's fine. Harness the karaoke vibe. You got the proverbial sweaty beer in your hand?

Hey, I am Lulu Miller. This is Radiolab. And we are warming up in the studio with an actor named Becca Blackwell.

Hey, I am Lulu Miller. This is Radiolab. And we are warming up in the studio with an actor named Becca Blackwell.

I'm so excited you're going to read this for us. I am too. I'm just going to. Who we brought in to voice a truly gorgeous essay about song in the animal world. From crickets to whales to humans in karaoke bars.

I'm so excited you're going to read this for us. I am too. I'm just going to. Who we brought in to voice a truly gorgeous essay about song in the animal world. From crickets to whales to humans in karaoke bars.

Isn't it funny?

Isn't it funny?

I know my song. I don't learn it. It's like this outlier where it's just like, huh? Did you just wake up with your song? I know. As you were. Also, can I start calling people like, you're a handsome trig. What a handsome trick. Okay, sorry. I know. They're going to be like, is that a mathematical equation? So wild. Okay, keep going. As you were.

I know my song. I don't learn it. It's like this outlier where it's just like, huh? Did you just wake up with your song? I know. As you were. Also, can I start calling people like, you're a handsome trig. What a handsome trick. Okay, sorry. I know. They're going to be like, is that a mathematical equation? So wild. Okay, keep going. As you were.

It's written by the author Sabrina Imbler, who is a friend of the show. We've had them on before. They write about nature and feelings, basically, which is kind of my favorite genre. And this is a brand new essay of theirs just off the presses.

It's written by the author Sabrina Imbler, who is a friend of the show. We've had them on before. They write about nature and feelings, basically, which is kind of my favorite genre. And this is a brand new essay of theirs just off the presses.

Hey, y'all. Lulu here. Okay, so before we get going with today's show, I'm going to hand it off to producer Sara Khari, who's going to tell us a brief story.

Hey, y'all. Lulu here. Okay, so before we get going with today's show, I'm going to hand it off to producer Sara Khari, who's going to tell us a brief story.

That's coming up after a quick break. Radiolab is supported by BetterHelp. In a society that glorifies hyper independence, it's easy to forget about all the invisible supports that allow each one of us to thrive, create, and feel okay. One of my invisible supports is a friend named Sarita.

That's coming up after a quick break. Radiolab is supported by BetterHelp. In a society that glorifies hyper independence, it's easy to forget about all the invisible supports that allow each one of us to thrive, create, and feel okay. One of my invisible supports is a friend named Sarita.

She is just a phone call away and can truly make me laugh about my biggest failures transmuting shame into humor. Another one of my supports, a very big one, is my therapist who helps me in ways that defy classification. And at BetterHelp, over 30,000 credentialed therapists are just a phone call, text or video chat away. Therapy can provide support for any area of your life.

She is just a phone call away and can truly make me laugh about my biggest failures transmuting shame into humor. Another one of my supports, a very big one, is my therapist who helps me in ways that defy classification. And at BetterHelp, over 30,000 credentialed therapists are just a phone call, text or video chat away. Therapy can provide support for any area of your life.

relationships, self-worth, even creativity. Build your support system with BetterHelp. Visit betterhelp.com slash Radiolab to get 10% off your first month. That's betterhelp, H-E-L-P dot com slash Radiolab.

relationships, self-worth, even creativity. Build your support system with BetterHelp. Visit betterhelp.com slash Radiolab to get 10% off your first month. That's betterhelp, H-E-L-P dot com slash Radiolab.

Lulu, Radiolab. So just before the break, Ruth Bader Ginsburg needed a way to convince an audience of men that discrimination on the basis of sex is wrong.

Lulu, Radiolab. So just before the break, Ruth Bader Ginsburg needed a way to convince an audience of men that discrimination on the basis of sex is wrong.

Radiolab Lulu, when we left off, the Supreme Court was getting ready to hear a case about gender discrimination. That's gender discrimination against men. I'll let Julia take it from here.

Radiolab Lulu, when we left off, the Supreme Court was getting ready to hear a case about gender discrimination. That's gender discrimination against men. I'll let Julia take it from here.

And just coasting on that swell of gratitude, we wanted to thank you. All of you listening, whether you ever do chest compressions on someone or not, you are helping keep us alive at Radiolab simply by listening to the show each week, maybe by sharing it with your friends, perhaps by donating or becoming a member. Radiolab is alive because of you. You are part of our chain of survival.

And just coasting on that swell of gratitude, we wanted to thank you. All of you listening, whether you ever do chest compressions on someone or not, you are helping keep us alive at Radiolab simply by listening to the show each week, maybe by sharing it with your friends, perhaps by donating or becoming a member. Radiolab is alive because of you. You are part of our chain of survival.

And if you are feeling moved to support us, you can sign up to become a member at any time at RadioLab.org slash donate. On with the show. This is Radiolab. I'm Lulu Miller.

And if you are feeling moved to support us, you can sign up to become a member at any time at RadioLab.org slash donate. On with the show. This is Radiolab. I'm Lulu Miller.

It is Women's History Month, sort of a weird time to be celebrating, you know, with the overturning of Roe v. Wade, the elimination of certain Title IX protections and recent attempts to freeze government funding to proposals that use the word woman or women or gender. Sort of feels like an avalanche of rights being stripped away. And all this kind of got me thinking about how rights are won.

It is Women's History Month, sort of a weird time to be celebrating, you know, with the overturning of Roe v. Wade, the elimination of certain Title IX protections and recent attempts to freeze government funding to proposals that use the word woman or women or gender. Sort of feels like an avalanche of rights being stripped away. And all this kind of got me thinking about how rights are won.

You know, sometimes it's straightforward. The founding fathers believed certain people should get rights, wrote them down, and boom, there they were. But sometimes it is sneakier. And so today, we're bringing you a story about one of the all-time greatest sneaks. It is a story of brilliant legal strategy of navigating loopholes and Trojan horses and beer. So much beer. And so, cheers. Cheers.

You know, sometimes it's straightforward. The founding fathers believed certain people should get rights, wrote them down, and boom, there they were. But sometimes it is sneakier. And so today, we're bringing you a story about one of the all-time greatest sneaks. It is a story of brilliant legal strategy of navigating loopholes and Trojan horses and beer. So much beer. And so, cheers. Cheers.

In honor of a more side door entrance to legal rights, happy Women's History Month. Please enjoy a tale from our sister show, More Perfect, that originally aired a few years back called Sex Appeal.

In honor of a more side door entrance to legal rights, happy Women's History Month. Please enjoy a tale from our sister show, More Perfect, that originally aired a few years back called Sex Appeal.

Just based on my own real world experience. Based on life right now. Right. And I also thought then that, you know, like one quick question to chat GPT and we're going to get to the bottom of this. Right. Turns out that was not the case here. As I looked into this, yeah, I found it was cacophonous in a way I didn't expect.

Just based on my own real world experience. Based on life right now. Right. And I also thought then that, you know, like one quick question to chat GPT and we're going to get to the bottom of this. Right. Turns out that was not the case here. As I looked into this, yeah, I found it was cacophonous in a way I didn't expect.

Okay, so let's try it a little bit faster. So let's try it a little bit faster. I won't be stopping so much. We're talking about the news. It's going to be a very interesting day with the news today.

Okay, so let's try it a little bit faster. So let's try it a little bit faster. I won't be stopping so much. We're talking about the news. It's going to be a very interesting day with the news today.

What if she just echoed every word said on television into the computer? Maybe she could close caption that way.

What if she just echoed every word said on television into the computer? Maybe she could close caption that way.

Okay. Yep. You can do it. Wow.

Okay. Yep. You can do it. Wow.

Oh, Lulu, we are just getting started here.

Oh, Lulu, we are just getting started here.

Picture just a sterile conference room with a drop ceiling.

Picture just a sterile conference room with a drop ceiling.

Well, she got really, really good at this. Like, that didn't mean that the captions were coming out really good, really well. As she started doing this, echoing into the computer over and over again, it would miss words or have trouble understanding her, her English, her voice. And so Meredith decided to meet the machine where it was at. She set out to learn to speak computer.

Well, she got really, really good at this. Like, that didn't mean that the captions were coming out really good, really well. As she started doing this, echoing into the computer over and over again, it would miss words or have trouble understanding her, her English, her voice. And so Meredith decided to meet the machine where it was at. She set out to learn to speak computer.

And we are going to get to that.

And we are going to get to that.

Right after a quick break.

Right after a quick break.

This is an ad by BetterHelp. You know, being a good guy, being, I guess, a man today, is sort of a never-ending act of recalibration. It is a wonderful, noble challenge, but a challenge nonetheless. We've got to be strong but vulnerable to be able to lead but also listen. We are told at times to protect but know that we should never control. I mean, it can be confusing.

This is an ad by BetterHelp. You know, being a good guy, being, I guess, a man today, is sort of a never-ending act of recalibration. It is a wonderful, noble challenge, but a challenge nonetheless. We've got to be strong but vulnerable to be able to lead but also listen. We are told at times to protect but know that we should never control. I mean, it can be confusing.

So it's no wonder that 6 million men in the U.S. suffer from depression every year, often undiagnosed. And I guess I'm just here to say, well, talking to someone, it can help. I have had some wonderful therapists over the years. They have helped me in many ways to be less reactive, to be more aware, to be a better partner, a better friend.

So it's no wonder that 6 million men in the U.S. suffer from depression every year, often undiagnosed. And I guess I'm just here to say, well, talking to someone, it can help. I have had some wonderful therapists over the years. They have helped me in many ways to be less reactive, to be more aware, to be a better partner, a better friend.

So if you're looking for someone to talk to, BetterHelp is a great place to start. With over 35,000 therapists, BetterHelp is the world's largest online therapy platform. Having served over 5 million people globally, it is convenient. You can join a session with the click of a button and you can switch therapists at any time.

So if you're looking for someone to talk to, BetterHelp is a great place to start. With over 35,000 therapists, BetterHelp is the world's largest online therapy platform. Having served over 5 million people globally, it is convenient. You can join a session with the click of a button and you can switch therapists at any time.

So to give therapy a try and to get 10% off your first month, go to betterhelp.com slash Radiolab. That's betterhelp, H-E-L-P dot com slash Radiolab.

So to give therapy a try and to get 10% off your first month, go to betterhelp.com slash Radiolab. That's betterhelp, H-E-L-P dot com slash Radiolab.

I found ladies swearing at their televisions, students demanding to be heard, and maybe oddest of all, a whole chorus of voices offering us a path through the strange future we seem to be walking into.

I found ladies swearing at their televisions, students demanding to be heard, and maybe oddest of all, a whole chorus of voices offering us a path through the strange future we seem to be walking into.

That's right. Voice writing. And along with Meredith, who you heard before the break. Let's see. One, two, three, four, five. I don't know why that fixed it, but it did. Yeah.

That's right. Voice writing. And along with Meredith, who you heard before the break. Let's see. One, two, three, four, five. I don't know why that fixed it, but it did. Yeah.

Okay.

Okay.

This lady right here, Stephanie Wawerka.

This lady right here, Stephanie Wawerka.

Set out to figure this out. Okay, so here's my first question for you. Yes, sir. And I noticed this with Meredith as well. I think your voices have been forever changed by the work that you have done. There is a precision and a spacing that makes sure that not a single syllable goes by without the listener being able to catch what it was.

Set out to figure this out. Okay, so here's my first question for you. Yes, sir. And I noticed this with Meredith as well. I think your voices have been forever changed by the work that you have done. There is a precision and a spacing that makes sure that not a single syllable goes by without the listener being able to catch what it was.

What would that sound like? Can I get a demo?

What would that sound like? Can I get a demo?

She says her vocabulary had to change as well.

She says her vocabulary had to change as well.

Like she'd say into the computer and, but it would hear an. Or she'd say in and it would hear and. And so the workaround she found was to train the computer to hear a specific real word when she would say a totally made up word.

Like she'd say into the computer and, but it would hear an. Or she'd say in and it would hear and. And so the workaround she found was to train the computer to hear a specific real word when she would say a totally made up word.

Yes. So she, instead of saying the word in, I-N, she would say... Inly.

Yes. So she, instead of saying the word in, I-N, she would say... Inly.

Which the computer would then hear and print on the screen as in. Well, how did you go home at the end of the day and start talking like a normal person again?

Which the computer would then hear and print on the screen as in. Well, how did you go home at the end of the day and start talking like a normal person again?

Because Inlee was really, well, only just the beginning. I mean, once she figured out this hack, she began developing and deploying hundreds and hundreds of code words to work around the software shortcomings.

Because Inlee was really, well, only just the beginning. I mean, once she figured out this hack, she began developing and deploying hundreds and hundreds of code words to work around the software shortcomings.

The fix?

The fix?

So that is... Wait, say that once more. Say that one, say it again.

So that is... Wait, say that once more. Say that one, say it again.

As Stephanie's brain melded further and further with her machine, she figured out she could trick it in other ways to make her life easier.

As Stephanie's brain melded further and further with her machine, she figured out she could trick it in other ways to make her life easier.

Eight syllables, way too many to spit out over and over again.

Eight syllables, way too many to spit out over and over again.

Again, Meredith Patterson.

Again, Meredith Patterson.

They learned they could trick it into not hearing and printing certain words, both the obvious ones.

They learned they could trick it into not hearing and printing certain words, both the obvious ones.

Programming them out.

Programming them out.

Exactly. Oh, neat. And then there were some weird ones that they had to program out as well.

Exactly. Oh, neat. And then there were some weird ones that they had to program out as well.

But when Stephanie would echo the word garage into the computer... The software would nearly without fail...

But when Stephanie would echo the word garage into the computer... The software would nearly without fail...

Creating some wonderful misunderstandings.

Creating some wonderful misunderstandings.

And I mean, this thing, voice writing, well, it became the industry standard for closed captioning. I mean, if you ever saw a closed caption after 2003, it was probably put there through this technique.

And I mean, this thing, voice writing, well, it became the industry standard for closed captioning. I mean, if you ever saw a closed caption after 2003, it was probably put there through this technique.

Meaning thousands and thousands of hours of television each week were accessible to the deaf. And thousands and thousands of hours of work were spent by these voice writers really forming relationships with their machines.

Meaning thousands and thousands of hours of television each week were accessible to the deaf. And thousands and thousands of hours of work were spent by these voice writers really forming relationships with their machines.

Seems like the best place to start is, you know, all the way back at the beginning.

Seems like the best place to start is, you know, all the way back at the beginning.

Well, it's no longer really an office building because the pandemic has made a lot of this work remote now. Okay. And the pandemic changed more than just where the captioning was being done. When the pandemic hits, due to everything going online, due to all of the constant press conferences happening, there is once more a flood of stuff that needs to be closed captioned.

Well, it's no longer really an office building because the pandemic has made a lot of this work remote now. Okay. And the pandemic changed more than just where the captioning was being done. When the pandemic hits, due to everything going online, due to all of the constant press conferences happening, there is once more a flood of stuff that needs to be closed captioned.

Great. With this guy.

Great. With this guy.

And now they don't have enough voice writers to cover all of this stuff. And so they are once again in this position of, oh, man, how do we keep up? And by 2020, that technology they had started playing around with back in the early 2000s, just like the black box, AI running the feed directly into the computer, it works pretty damn well.

And now they don't have enough voice writers to cover all of this stuff. And so they are once again in this position of, oh, man, how do we keep up? And by 2020, that technology they had started playing around with back in the early 2000s, just like the black box, AI running the feed directly into the computer, it works pretty damn well.

And his interpreter.

And his interpreter.

It works well enough that you basically no longer need a human in the system at all. Meaning this dance... It's winding down. It's coming to an end. Today, Meredith says AI is doing around 50% of the closed captioning the National Captioning Institute is hired to do.

It works well enough that you basically no longer need a human in the system at all. Meaning this dance... It's winding down. It's coming to an end. Today, Meredith says AI is doing around 50% of the closed captioning the National Captioning Institute is hired to do.

And they haven't hired anyone to fill any roles that have become vacant in the last two years.

And they haven't hired anyone to fill any roles that have become vacant in the last two years.

Yeah, I think it's tough because I as a person, I as a professional, am thinking and worrying a lot about how these new AI tools are going to impact me, my livelihood and my craft. And, well, this is in one way a story about a bunch of people being replaced by those sorts of tools.

Yeah, I think it's tough because I as a person, I as a professional, am thinking and worrying a lot about how these new AI tools are going to impact me, my livelihood and my craft. And, well, this is in one way a story about a bunch of people being replaced by those sorts of tools.

Today, Greg is an attorney with a coif of silver hair, thin-rimmed glasses. He was born deaf in Queens, New York.

Today, Greg is an attorney with a coif of silver hair, thin-rimmed glasses. He was born deaf in Queens, New York.

It's also a little bit of a story about how to use those same tools with a smile to, like, approach those tools with some excitement and with some creativity.

It's also a little bit of a story about how to use those same tools with a smile to, like, approach those tools with some excitement and with some creativity.

They may eventually, but, like, yeah, why shouldn't you enjoy your time with the hand grenade before it goes off, you know? Okay, okay.

They may eventually, but, like, yeah, why shouldn't you enjoy your time with the hand grenade before it goes off, you know? Okay, okay.

Sure, I think what I'm trying to say is that Our voice writers, they were trying to get their machine to produce accurate text. And, of course, now we are asking AI to do all sorts of other things for us, from designing a drug to helping us process our feelings to making a picture to writing a song. But... Like, it can't do those things well without us. It needs us to help it, to play with it.

Sure, I think what I'm trying to say is that Our voice writers, they were trying to get their machine to produce accurate text. And, of course, now we are asking AI to do all sorts of other things for us, from designing a drug to helping us process our feelings to making a picture to writing a song. But... Like, it can't do those things well without us. It needs us to help it, to play with it.

And I mean, well, it is so easy to just be down or scared or turned off by these new tools.

And I mean, well, it is so easy to just be down or scared or turned off by these new tools.

Sure, yes, that too. But I think regardless of how you feel about these tools, ethically, what these voice writers show is... That back and forth, that dance, it can yield some very unexpected and world-changing results. Positive world-changing results, like millions of people having access to information they otherwise would not have had.

Sure, yes, that too. But I think regardless of how you feel about these tools, ethically, what these voice writers show is... That back and forth, that dance, it can yield some very unexpected and world-changing results. Positive world-changing results, like millions of people having access to information they otherwise would not have had.

So, let me just... We are recording. Good.

So, let me just... We are recording. Good.

And growing up, he says, you know, during the daytime, he felt pretty darn integrated into the larger hearing world.

And growing up, he says, you know, during the daytime, he felt pretty darn integrated into the larger hearing world.

But in the evening... You know, when all good Americans turned on their TVs. He was not.

But in the evening... You know, when all good Americans turned on their TVs. He was not.

News broadcasts, the occasional special, that was about it. And it very well might have stayed that way if it hadn't been for Greg.

News broadcasts, the occasional special, that was about it. And it very well might have stayed that way if it hadn't been for Greg.

And so, fast-forwarding, it is the spring of 1988 on the campus of Gallaudet University. The campus is beautiful and gated. The students are in lots of denim and oversized sweatshirts. I mean, it is your standard-looking college. With one exception.

And so, fast-forwarding, it is the spring of 1988 on the campus of Gallaudet University. The campus is beautiful and gated. The students are in lots of denim and oversized sweatshirts. I mean, it is your standard-looking college. With one exception.

This is disability rights attorney Karen Peltz-Strauss.

This is disability rights attorney Karen Peltz-Strauss.

She is fluent in sign language.

She is fluent in sign language.

Yeah, in its 124-year history, all of them were hearing.

Yeah, in its 124-year history, all of them were hearing.

Okay. Watching the television with her.

Okay. Watching the television with her.

Who was actually the student body president as all this was going down. He and his classmates... We were very optimistic. Because of the three finalists for the job, two of them, Harvey Corsons and I. King Jordan, they were deaf. And the third candidate, a woman by the name of Elizabeth Zinsser, not only was she not deaf, she didn't even know sign language.

Who was actually the student body president as all this was going down. He and his classmates... We were very optimistic. Because of the three finalists for the job, two of them, Harvey Corsons and I. King Jordan, they were deaf. And the third candidate, a woman by the name of Elizabeth Zinsser, not only was she not deaf, she didn't even know sign language.

And so, March 6th, 1988.

And so, March 6th, 1988.

Oh, no. Oh, no. Yeah. They went with the hearing lady.

Oh, no. Oh, no. Yeah. They went with the hearing lady.

Oh, yeah. Going to unknown, exciting places like the shag-carpeted living room of my mother. Uh... No, and so we're sitting there, and, you know, my mother's hearing. It's not what it once was. And so, like most nights, she was watching with the closed captioning on. Oh, absolutely same. All right, right on.

Oh, yeah. Going to unknown, exciting places like the shag-carpeted living room of my mother. Uh... No, and so we're sitting there, and, you know, my mother's hearing. It's not what it once was. And so, like most nights, she was watching with the closed captioning on. Oh, absolutely same. All right, right on.

Well, at least one of the explanations was pretty darn ugly.

Well, at least one of the explanations was pretty darn ugly.

And the students, well, they go berserk.

And the students, well, they go berserk.

Things were escalating.

Things were escalating.

And escalating.

And escalating.

And escalating.

And escalating.

First things first, Greg and a couple of the others.

First things first, Greg and a couple of the others.

They hotwire some of the school buses and drive those in front of the gates.

They hotwire some of the school buses and drive those in front of the gates.

So now it's really blocked off.

So now it's really blocked off.

Yes.

Yes.

As the administration arrived.

As the administration arrived.

The students vowing to keep it that way until the board replaced Zinsser.

The students vowing to keep it that way until the board replaced Zinsser.

Picture folks on each other's shoulders, waving signs, banging drums. Almost immediately, faculty and staff like Karen joined the cause.

Picture folks on each other's shoulders, waving signs, banging drums. Almost immediately, faculty and staff like Karen joined the cause.

And at least once, they pulled the fire alarm, which, you know, didn't bother the students, but bothered anyone who could hear.

And at least once, they pulled the fire alarm, which, you know, didn't bother the students, but bothered anyone who could hear.

By the end of the first day, Greg had become the official spokesperson.

By the end of the first day, Greg had become the official spokesperson.

And by the second day, media from all over the country had poured in.

And by the second day, media from all over the country had poured in.

I mean, this became a national news story, culminating with Greg appearing a nightline to debate the incoming president, Elizabeth Zinsser.

I mean, this became a national news story, culminating with Greg appearing a nightline to debate the incoming president, Elizabeth Zinsser.

Anyhow, I think it was the local news literally talking about things like filling up potholes.

Anyhow, I think it was the local news literally talking about things like filling up potholes.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. We've got like a split screen going on. There are captions on the bottom of the screen. And Greg, who you're about to hear again, talking through an interpreter, is on the right side of the split screen.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. We've got like a split screen going on. There are captions on the bottom of the screen. And Greg, who you're about to hear again, talking through an interpreter, is on the right side of the split screen.

So intense. Yeah, it gets heated, like as Zinsser tries to get going here again.

So intense. Yeah, it gets heated, like as Zinsser tries to get going here again.

He cuts her off again.

He cuts her off again.

And as I'm sitting on the floor, sort of bored out of my gourd, I have one of those moments where a genuine question popped into my head, which was, Those closed captions on the screen, you know, how did those get there?

And as I'm sitting on the floor, sort of bored out of my gourd, I have one of those moments where a genuine question popped into my head, which was, Those closed captions on the screen, you know, how did those get there?

Do you think that was like a special move or was... Yeah, so this broadcast was actually open captioned, meaning that everybody who tuned in saw the captioning on the bottom of the screen.

Do you think that was like a special move or was... Yeah, so this broadcast was actually open captioned, meaning that everybody who tuned in saw the captioning on the bottom of the screen.

However... Like that was not the case for the vast majority of the coverage of the Deaf President Now protests. And in fact, even the broadcasts that were closed captioned, like to receive those closed captions, to get them to show up on your screen, you needed to have one of these very expensive, clunky decoders.

However... Like that was not the case for the vast majority of the coverage of the Deaf President Now protests. And in fact, even the broadcasts that were closed captioned, like to receive those closed captions, to get them to show up on your screen, you needed to have one of these very expensive, clunky decoders.

in your house connected to your television. Think of it like a VCR, but it's a VCR that just allows your television to receive the closed captions.

in your house connected to your television. Think of it like a VCR, but it's a VCR that just allows your television to receive the closed captions.

Oh yeah, like nobody.

Oh yeah, like nobody.

Yeah. And I think that's probably part of why you see this sort of chain reaction of events coming out of this moment. So less than a week after the protest starts, Zinsser resigned and was quickly replaced by one of the Deaf finalists, I. King Jordan.

Yeah. And I think that's probably part of why you see this sort of chain reaction of events coming out of this moment. So less than a week after the protest starts, Zinsser resigned and was quickly replaced by one of the Deaf finalists, I. King Jordan.

But then you also have a whole bunch of laws get passed in the years following. This thing called the Decoder Act that required all televisions to have that closed captioning decoder built into it. A little thing called the Americans with Disabilities Act. And eventually the 1996 Telecommunications Act. And that bill basically is what brings captioning into living rooms everywhere.

But then you also have a whole bunch of laws get passed in the years following. This thing called the Decoder Act that required all televisions to have that closed captioning decoder built into it. A little thing called the Americans with Disabilities Act. And eventually the 1996 Telecommunications Act. And that bill basically is what brings captioning into living rooms everywhere.

It's that by like the early 2000s, all new English language broadcast television had to be closed captioned.

It's that by like the early 2000s, all new English language broadcast television had to be closed captioned.

With like very, very few exceptions, everything has to be captioned. And I mean, Karen and Greg, they were central in pushing this requirement into the bill.

With like very, very few exceptions, everything has to be captioned. And I mean, Karen and Greg, they were central in pushing this requirement into the bill.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And they say, like, it all sort of started at Gallaudet.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And they say, like, it all sort of started at Gallaudet.

Yeah, so that's the why. Yeah. Right?

Yeah, so that's the why. Yeah. Right?

Like, why we have all of these closed captions today. But the how, like, how they were going to make all of these hours and hours and hours of those closed captions, well, that's where this story gets just delightful, number one. And number two, I think starts to say a bit about what what the future of access to information and media is going to look like for all of us. Okay.

Like, why we have all of these closed captions today. But the how, like, how they were going to make all of these hours and hours and hours of those closed captions, well, that's where this story gets just delightful, number one. And number two, I think starts to say a bit about what what the future of access to information and media is going to look like for all of us. Okay.

Like, is it a human sitting in an office?

Like, is it a human sitting in an office?

And we will get to that in a moment. But first...

And we will get to that in a moment. But first...

Imagine a court reporter with a strange keyboard. Just like fire fingers. Exactly. Okay. That is how captions are being made. So you've got dozens, perhaps hundreds of people sitting in offices with the television... being pumped into their ears through headphones, and they're just typing away at lightning speeds.

Imagine a court reporter with a strange keyboard. Just like fire fingers. Exactly. Okay. That is how captions are being made. So you've got dozens, perhaps hundreds of people sitting in offices with the television... being pumped into their ears through headphones, and they're just typing away at lightning speeds.

Or, and this was sort of my real question, like, is this one of those jobs that AI has already taken and replaced us?

Or, and this was sort of my real question, like, is this one of those jobs that AI has already taken and replaced us?

And back when she joined, basically, as an entry-level employee, she was handed this problem.

And back when she joined, basically, as an entry-level employee, she was handed this problem.

Okay, so you are there. You're this, like, junior member of staff.

Okay, so you are there. You're this, like, junior member of staff.

You know, like a speech transcriber. And her hope was that she could just take a live television feed, plug it in, and create the captions that way.

You know, like a speech transcriber. And her hope was that she could just take a live television feed, plug it in, and create the captions that way.

Little things like the news broadcaster throwing to the weatherman would totally trip it up. It didn't include punctuation. And accents of any kind were an issue. However, what it could do pretty darn well was transcribe her voice. which led to a sort of crazy idea. Could you just, like, could you do the thing that we're about to talk about?

Little things like the news broadcaster throwing to the weatherman would totally trip it up. It didn't include punctuation. And accents of any kind were an issue. However, what it could do pretty darn well was transcribe her voice. which led to a sort of crazy idea. Could you just, like, could you do the thing that we're about to talk about?

Hey, Lulu here. So a few months back, our illustrator, Jared Bartman, got a difficult prompt. We asked him to design a cute tote bag based on our incredibly morbid episode, Cheating Death, and Jared was stumped. How do you create something plucky and cheerful and design forward about the inevitability? of dying. So he brooded and he doodled and then one day it hit him.

Hey, Lulu here. So a few months back, our illustrator, Jared Bartman, got a difficult prompt. We asked him to design a cute tote bag based on our incredibly morbid episode, Cheating Death, and Jared was stumped. How do you create something plucky and cheerful and design forward about the inevitability? of dying. So he brooded and he doodled and then one day it hit him.

It's really similar. Hey, I'm Lulu Miller. And I'm Molly Webster. This is Radiolab. And today... It's like red velvet bread. Look at that.

It's really similar. Hey, I'm Lulu Miller. And I'm Molly Webster. This is Radiolab. And today... It's like red velvet bread. Look at that.

We are dredging up an episode from the archives. It's called Everybody's Got One. And I really love this story so very much. I hope you enjoy. A round loaf of homemade bread.

We are dredging up an episode from the archives. It's called Everybody's Got One. And I really love this story so very much. I hope you enjoy. A round loaf of homemade bread.

And it comes to us from our contributing editor, Heather Radke. Yeah, I'm not even on staff. And I wish you were, producer Becca Bressler.

And it comes to us from our contributing editor, Heather Radke. Yeah, I'm not even on staff. And I wish you were, producer Becca Bressler.

But so, okay, placenta comes out. It releases. It leaves no trace. It leaves no scar. It knows it's time to let those grappling hooks go. It comes out. And then what's the end of the journey?

But so, okay, placenta comes out. It releases. It leaves no trace. It leaves no scar. It knows it's time to let those grappling hooks go. It comes out. And then what's the end of the journey?

This episode was reported by Heather Radke and Becca Bressler and produced by Becca Bressler and Pat Walters with help from Matt Kilty and Maria Paz Gutierrez. Special thanks to Diana Bianchi, Julia Katz, Sam Bajadi, Celia Bardwell-Jones, and Hannah Ingraham. Special thanks also to my placenta for getting me here. Thanks. Thanks to the placentas of all the people who made this program.

This episode was reported by Heather Radke and Becca Bressler and produced by Becca Bressler and Pat Walters with help from Matt Kilty and Maria Paz Gutierrez. Special thanks to Diana Bianchi, Julia Katz, Sam Bajadi, Celia Bardwell-Jones, and Hannah Ingraham. Special thanks also to my placenta for getting me here. Thanks. Thanks to the placentas of all the people who made this program.

Thanks for building such talented humans. And finally, to the placenta that made you, listener. Thanks for making such a dorky human who likes our program. Really appreciate it.

Thanks for building such talented humans. And finally, to the placenta that made you, listener. Thanks for making such a dorky human who likes our program. Really appreciate it.

I mean, okay, I was pregnant, and I think I thought it was just like extra lining on my uterus. But it's not. It's not even yours.

I mean, okay, I was pregnant, and I think I thought it was just like extra lining on my uterus. But it's not. It's not even yours.

It is easily my favorite design ever. And because it's sort of this secret code about death, it's kind of like carrying carpe diem around on your shoulder. Bye. Bye. Bye. A zipper. So go take a peek at Radiolab.org slash join. That's Radiolab.org slash join. And that's all. Thank you. On with the show.

It is easily my favorite design ever. And because it's sort of this secret code about death, it's kind of like carrying carpe diem around on your shoulder. Bye. Bye. Bye. A zipper. So go take a peek at Radiolab.org slash join. That's Radiolab.org slash join. And that's all. Thank you. On with the show.

Cool. Okay. I'm so excited. Educate me on this organ I have had and know nothing about. All right.

Cool. Okay. I'm so excited. Educate me on this organ I have had and know nothing about. All right.

Time to get back to the refills. That is wild.

Time to get back to the refills. That is wild.

Wait, wait, wait. Can I just ask, isn't our whole point to carry on? Isn't that what evolution has built us to do? Why would this moment where it's about to happen be so combative?

Wait, wait, wait. Can I just ask, isn't our whole point to carry on? Isn't that what evolution has built us to do? Why would this moment where it's about to happen be so combative?

Lulu. Molly. Heather. Becca. Radiolab. Today we are telling the story of the placenta, a story which has revealed to us just how much pregnancy itself is like a war between the fetus and the parent's body. And what we were just getting around to was why. Right.

Lulu. Molly. Heather. Becca. Radiolab. Today we are telling the story of the placenta, a story which has revealed to us just how much pregnancy itself is like a war between the fetus and the parent's body. And what we were just getting around to was why. Right.

Okay.

Okay.

Alright. You're listening to Radiolab.

Alright. You're listening to Radiolab.

From WNYC. WNYC.

From WNYC. WNYC.

Just based on my own real world experience. Based on life right now. Right. And I also thought then that, you know, like one quick question to chat GPT and we're going to get to the bottom of this. Right. Turns out that was not the case here. As I looked into this, yeah, I found it was cacophonous in a way I didn't expect.

Okay, so let's try it a little bit faster. So let's try it a little bit faster. I won't be stopping so much. We're talking about the news. It's going to be a very interesting day with the news today.

What if she just echoed every word said on television into the computer? Maybe she could close caption that way.

Okay. Yep. You can do it. Wow.

Oh, Lulu, we are just getting started here.

Picture just a sterile conference room with a drop ceiling.

Well, she got really, really good at this. Like, that didn't mean that the captions were coming out really good, really well. As she started doing this, echoing into the computer over and over again, it would miss words or have trouble understanding her, her English, her voice. And so Meredith decided to meet the machine where it was at. She set out to learn to speak computer.

And we are going to get to that.

Right after a quick break.

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I found ladies swearing at their televisions, students demanding to be heard, and maybe oddest of all, a whole chorus of voices offering us a path through the strange future we seem to be walking into.

That's right. Voice writing. And along with Meredith, who you heard before the break. Let's see. One, two, three, four, five. I don't know why that fixed it, but it did. Yeah.

Okay.

This lady right here, Stephanie Wawerka.

Set out to figure this out. Okay, so here's my first question for you. Yes, sir. And I noticed this with Meredith as well. I think your voices have been forever changed by the work that you have done. There is a precision and a spacing that makes sure that not a single syllable goes by without the listener being able to catch what it was.

What would that sound like? Can I get a demo?

She says her vocabulary had to change as well.

Like she'd say into the computer and, but it would hear an. Or she'd say in and it would hear and. And so the workaround she found was to train the computer to hear a specific real word when she would say a totally made up word.

Yes. So she, instead of saying the word in, I-N, she would say... Inly.

Which the computer would then hear and print on the screen as in. Well, how did you go home at the end of the day and start talking like a normal person again?

Because Inlee was really, well, only just the beginning. I mean, once she figured out this hack, she began developing and deploying hundreds and hundreds of code words to work around the software shortcomings.

The fix?

So that is... Wait, say that once more. Say that one, say it again.

As Stephanie's brain melded further and further with her machine, she figured out she could trick it in other ways to make her life easier.

Eight syllables, way too many to spit out over and over again.

Again, Meredith Patterson.

They learned they could trick it into not hearing and printing certain words, both the obvious ones.

Programming them out.

Exactly. Oh, neat. And then there were some weird ones that they had to program out as well.

But when Stephanie would echo the word garage into the computer... The software would nearly without fail...

Creating some wonderful misunderstandings.

And I mean, this thing, voice writing, well, it became the industry standard for closed captioning. I mean, if you ever saw a closed caption after 2003, it was probably put there through this technique.

Meaning thousands and thousands of hours of television each week were accessible to the deaf. And thousands and thousands of hours of work were spent by these voice writers really forming relationships with their machines.

Seems like the best place to start is, you know, all the way back at the beginning.

Well, it's no longer really an office building because the pandemic has made a lot of this work remote now. Okay. And the pandemic changed more than just where the captioning was being done. When the pandemic hits, due to everything going online, due to all of the constant press conferences happening, there is once more a flood of stuff that needs to be closed captioned.

Great. With this guy.

And now they don't have enough voice writers to cover all of this stuff. And so they are once again in this position of, oh, man, how do we keep up? And by 2020, that technology they had started playing around with back in the early 2000s, just like the black box, AI running the feed directly into the computer, it works pretty damn well.

And his interpreter.

It works well enough that you basically no longer need a human in the system at all. Meaning this dance... It's winding down. It's coming to an end. Today, Meredith says AI is doing around 50% of the closed captioning the National Captioning Institute is hired to do.

And they haven't hired anyone to fill any roles that have become vacant in the last two years.

Yeah, I think it's tough because I as a person, I as a professional, am thinking and worrying a lot about how these new AI tools are going to impact me, my livelihood and my craft. And, well, this is in one way a story about a bunch of people being replaced by those sorts of tools.

Today, Greg is an attorney with a coif of silver hair, thin-rimmed glasses. He was born deaf in Queens, New York.

It's also a little bit of a story about how to use those same tools with a smile to, like, approach those tools with some excitement and with some creativity.

They may eventually, but, like, yeah, why shouldn't you enjoy your time with the hand grenade before it goes off, you know? Okay, okay.

Sure, I think what I'm trying to say is that Our voice writers, they were trying to get their machine to produce accurate text. And, of course, now we are asking AI to do all sorts of other things for us, from designing a drug to helping us process our feelings to making a picture to writing a song. But... Like, it can't do those things well without us. It needs us to help it, to play with it.

And I mean, well, it is so easy to just be down or scared or turned off by these new tools.

Sure, yes, that too. But I think regardless of how you feel about these tools, ethically, what these voice writers show is... That back and forth, that dance, it can yield some very unexpected and world-changing results. Positive world-changing results, like millions of people having access to information they otherwise would not have had.

So, let me just... We are recording. Good.

And growing up, he says, you know, during the daytime, he felt pretty darn integrated into the larger hearing world.

But in the evening... You know, when all good Americans turned on their TVs. He was not.

News broadcasts, the occasional special, that was about it. And it very well might have stayed that way if it hadn't been for Greg.

And so, fast-forwarding, it is the spring of 1988 on the campus of Gallaudet University. The campus is beautiful and gated. The students are in lots of denim and oversized sweatshirts. I mean, it is your standard-looking college. With one exception.

This is disability rights attorney Karen Peltz-Strauss.

She is fluent in sign language.

Yeah, in its 124-year history, all of them were hearing.

Okay. Watching the television with her.

Who was actually the student body president as all this was going down. He and his classmates... We were very optimistic. Because of the three finalists for the job, two of them, Harvey Corsons and I. King Jordan, they were deaf. And the third candidate, a woman by the name of Elizabeth Zinsser, not only was she not deaf, she didn't even know sign language.

And so, March 6th, 1988.

Oh, no. Oh, no. Yeah. They went with the hearing lady.

Oh, yeah. Going to unknown, exciting places like the shag-carpeted living room of my mother. Uh... No, and so we're sitting there, and, you know, my mother's hearing. It's not what it once was. And so, like most nights, she was watching with the closed captioning on. Oh, absolutely same. All right, right on.

Well, at least one of the explanations was pretty darn ugly.

And the students, well, they go berserk.

Things were escalating.

And escalating.

And escalating.

First things first, Greg and a couple of the others.

They hotwire some of the school buses and drive those in front of the gates.

So now it's really blocked off.

Yes.

As the administration arrived.

The students vowing to keep it that way until the board replaced Zinsser.

Picture folks on each other's shoulders, waving signs, banging drums. Almost immediately, faculty and staff like Karen joined the cause.

And at least once, they pulled the fire alarm, which, you know, didn't bother the students, but bothered anyone who could hear.

By the end of the first day, Greg had become the official spokesperson.

And by the second day, media from all over the country had poured in.

I mean, this became a national news story, culminating with Greg appearing a nightline to debate the incoming president, Elizabeth Zinsser.

Anyhow, I think it was the local news literally talking about things like filling up potholes.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. We've got like a split screen going on. There are captions on the bottom of the screen. And Greg, who you're about to hear again, talking through an interpreter, is on the right side of the split screen.

So intense. Yeah, it gets heated, like as Zinsser tries to get going here again.

He cuts her off again.

And as I'm sitting on the floor, sort of bored out of my gourd, I have one of those moments where a genuine question popped into my head, which was, Those closed captions on the screen, you know, how did those get there?

Do you think that was like a special move or was... Yeah, so this broadcast was actually open captioned, meaning that everybody who tuned in saw the captioning on the bottom of the screen.

However... Like that was not the case for the vast majority of the coverage of the Deaf President Now protests. And in fact, even the broadcasts that were closed captioned, like to receive those closed captions, to get them to show up on your screen, you needed to have one of these very expensive, clunky decoders.

in your house connected to your television. Think of it like a VCR, but it's a VCR that just allows your television to receive the closed captions.

Oh yeah, like nobody.

Yeah. And I think that's probably part of why you see this sort of chain reaction of events coming out of this moment. So less than a week after the protest starts, Zinsser resigned and was quickly replaced by one of the Deaf finalists, I. King Jordan.

But then you also have a whole bunch of laws get passed in the years following. This thing called the Decoder Act that required all televisions to have that closed captioning decoder built into it. A little thing called the Americans with Disabilities Act. And eventually the 1996 Telecommunications Act. And that bill basically is what brings captioning into living rooms everywhere.

It's that by like the early 2000s, all new English language broadcast television had to be closed captioned.

With like very, very few exceptions, everything has to be captioned. And I mean, Karen and Greg, they were central in pushing this requirement into the bill.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And they say, like, it all sort of started at Gallaudet.

Yeah, so that's the why. Yeah. Right?

Like, why we have all of these closed captions today. But the how, like, how they were going to make all of these hours and hours and hours of those closed captions, well, that's where this story gets just delightful, number one. And number two, I think starts to say a bit about what what the future of access to information and media is going to look like for all of us. Okay.

Like, is it a human sitting in an office?

And we will get to that in a moment. But first...

Imagine a court reporter with a strange keyboard. Just like fire fingers. Exactly. Okay. That is how captions are being made. So you've got dozens, perhaps hundreds of people sitting in offices with the television... being pumped into their ears through headphones, and they're just typing away at lightning speeds.

Or, and this was sort of my real question, like, is this one of those jobs that AI has already taken and replaced us?

And back when she joined, basically, as an entry-level employee, she was handed this problem.

Okay, so you are there. You're this, like, junior member of staff.

You know, like a speech transcriber. And her hope was that she could just take a live television feed, plug it in, and create the captions that way.

Little things like the news broadcaster throwing to the weatherman would totally trip it up. It didn't include punctuation. And accents of any kind were an issue. However, what it could do pretty darn well was transcribe her voice. which led to a sort of crazy idea. Could you just, like, could you do the thing that we're about to talk about?

Okay.

Alright. You're listening to Radiolab.

From WNYC. WNYC.

And when I read it, it just screamed at me that it wanted to be freed from the page, that its words wanted to be filled with air and the spaces between them filled with music and natural sounds. And so we asked Becca, who we've worked with before, if they'd come in and read it. And we asked our sound designer, Dylan Keefe, if he would really bring it to life. And what they made is so beautiful.

When we come back, we'll see what happens when a song is lost, not just for Sabrina, but for a whole species.

And so I am going to get out of the way and let you hear it.

This is Radiolab. I'm Lulu Miller. Today, we are dedicating the whole episode to an essay I read and adored called Key Changes, all about song in the animal world and beyond. It's by Sabrina Imbler, and it is being read to us by the actor Becca Blackwell.

Author, Sabrina Imbler.

All right. Now, before we end for real, I have just got to play one last very special treat for you because Sabrina initially wrote that essay for a special issue of Orion magazine, all about queer ecology that I guest edited. And to celebrate the launch, we had this Zoom event where we brought Sabrina into conversation with this other voice you are hearing.

Nature's music has been the most grounding thing for me. Amy Ray of the Indigo Girls. And we talked a lot about song. Animals sing because they need to find each other. And at one point, Amy Rae started talking about this bird she hears singing at night.

And so I had to ask her if she would sing it for us.

We appreciate the adventure. Okay.

That was so great. Thank you. Thanks. Thanks. And that'll do it for today. Big thanks to Amy Rae. Big thanks to Sabrina. This episode was produced by Annie McKeown and Pat Walters with original sound design and scoring by Dylan Keefe. It was fact-checked by Kim Schmidt, edited by Taja Eason, and voiced by the spectacular Becca Blackwell. Special thanks to Dr. Jay Gallagher for his cricket sounds.

Chirp, chirp, if you would like to check out that issue of Orion Magazine. It's called Queer Planet. And you can go to orion.org and type in the code Radiolab when you subscribe for a 20% discount. All right, that's all. Peace be unto you, night birds, morning birds, songbirds, and everything in between.

This is Ira Flato, host of Science Friday. For over 30 years, the Science Friday team has been reporting high-quality science and technology news, making science fun for curious people by covering everything from the outer reaches of space to the rapidly changing world of AI to the tiniest microbes in our bodies.

Audiences trust our show because they know we're driven by a mission to inform and serve listeners first and foremost with important news they won't get anywhere else. And our sponsors benefit from that halo effect. For more information on becoming a sponsor, visit sponsorship.wnyc.org.

Heads up, today's show does include a couple of curse words. So anyway, here we go.

Okay. All right.

Okay, well, I'll play this, and then I don't think you're going to be able to hear it, Lulu. That's fine. Harness the karaoke vibe. You got the proverbial sweaty beer in your hand?

Hey, I am Lulu Miller. This is Radiolab. And we are warming up in the studio with an actor named Becca Blackwell.

I'm so excited you're going to read this for us. I am too. I'm just going to. Who we brought in to voice a truly gorgeous essay about song in the animal world. From crickets to whales to humans in karaoke bars.

Isn't it funny?

I know my song. I don't learn it. It's like this outlier where it's just like, huh? Did you just wake up with your song? I know. As you were. Also, can I start calling people like, you're a handsome trig. What a handsome trick. Okay, sorry. I know. They're going to be like, is that a mathematical equation? So wild. Okay, keep going. As you were.

It's written by the author Sabrina Imbler, who is a friend of the show. We've had them on before. They write about nature and feelings, basically, which is kind of my favorite genre. And this is a brand new essay of theirs just off the presses.

Hey, Lulu here. So a few months back, our illustrator, Jared Bartman, got a difficult prompt. We asked him to design a cute tote bag based on our incredibly morbid episode, Cheating Death, and Jared was stumped. How do you create something plucky and cheerful and design forward about the inevitability? of dying. So he brooded and he doodled and then one day it hit him.

It's really similar. Hey, I'm Lulu Miller. And I'm Molly Webster. This is Radiolab. And today... It's like red velvet bread. Look at that.

We are dredging up an episode from the archives. It's called Everybody's Got One. And I really love this story so very much. I hope you enjoy. A round loaf of homemade bread.

And it comes to us from our contributing editor, Heather Radke. Yeah, I'm not even on staff. And I wish you were, producer Becca Bressler.

But so, okay, placenta comes out. It releases. It leaves no trace. It leaves no scar. It knows it's time to let those grappling hooks go. It comes out. And then what's the end of the journey?

This episode was reported by Heather Radke and Becca Bressler and produced by Becca Bressler and Pat Walters with help from Matt Kilty and Maria Paz Gutierrez. Special thanks to Diana Bianchi, Julia Katz, Sam Bajadi, Celia Bardwell-Jones, and Hannah Ingraham. Special thanks also to my placenta for getting me here. Thanks. Thanks to the placentas of all the people who made this program.

Thanks for building such talented humans. And finally, to the placenta that made you, listener. Thanks for making such a dorky human who likes our program. Really appreciate it.

I mean, okay, I was pregnant, and I think I thought it was just like extra lining on my uterus. But it's not. It's not even yours.

It is easily my favorite design ever. And because it's sort of this secret code about death, it's kind of like carrying carpe diem around on your shoulder. Bye. Bye. Bye. A zipper. So go take a peek at Radiolab.org slash join. That's Radiolab.org slash join. And that's all. Thank you. On with the show.

Cool. Okay. I'm so excited. Educate me on this organ I have had and know nothing about. All right.

Time to get back to the refills. That is wild.

Wait, wait, wait. Can I just ask, isn't our whole point to carry on? Isn't that what evolution has built us to do? Why would this moment where it's about to happen be so combative?

Lulu. Molly. Heather. Becca. Radiolab. Today we are telling the story of the placenta, a story which has revealed to us just how much pregnancy itself is like a war between the fetus and the parent's body. And what we were just getting around to was why. Right.

Hey, y'all. Lulu here. Okay, so before we get going with today's show, I'm going to hand it off to producer Sara Khari, who's going to tell us a brief story.

That's coming up after a quick break. Radiolab is supported by BetterHelp. In a society that glorifies hyper independence, it's easy to forget about all the invisible supports that allow each one of us to thrive, create, and feel okay. One of my invisible supports is a friend named Sarita.

She is just a phone call away and can truly make me laugh about my biggest failures transmuting shame into humor. Another one of my supports, a very big one, is my therapist who helps me in ways that defy classification. And at BetterHelp, over 30,000 credentialed therapists are just a phone call, text or video chat away. Therapy can provide support for any area of your life.

relationships, self-worth, even creativity. Build your support system with BetterHelp. Visit betterhelp.com slash Radiolab to get 10% off your first month. That's betterhelp, H-E-L-P dot com slash Radiolab.

Lulu, Radiolab. So just before the break, Ruth Bader Ginsburg needed a way to convince an audience of men that discrimination on the basis of sex is wrong.

Radiolab Lulu, when we left off, the Supreme Court was getting ready to hear a case about gender discrimination. That's gender discrimination against men. I'll let Julia take it from here.

And just coasting on that swell of gratitude, we wanted to thank you. All of you listening, whether you ever do chest compressions on someone or not, you are helping keep us alive at Radiolab simply by listening to the show each week, maybe by sharing it with your friends, perhaps by donating or becoming a member. Radiolab is alive because of you. You are part of our chain of survival.

And if you are feeling moved to support us, you can sign up to become a member at any time at RadioLab.org slash donate. On with the show. This is Radiolab. I'm Lulu Miller.

It is Women's History Month, sort of a weird time to be celebrating, you know, with the overturning of Roe v. Wade, the elimination of certain Title IX protections and recent attempts to freeze government funding to proposals that use the word woman or women or gender. Sort of feels like an avalanche of rights being stripped away. And all this kind of got me thinking about how rights are won.

You know, sometimes it's straightforward. The founding fathers believed certain people should get rights, wrote them down, and boom, there they were. But sometimes it is sneakier. And so today, we're bringing you a story about one of the all-time greatest sneaks. It is a story of brilliant legal strategy of navigating loopholes and Trojan horses and beer. So much beer. And so, cheers. Cheers.

In honor of a more side door entrance to legal rights, happy Women's History Month. Please enjoy a tale from our sister show, More Perfect, that originally aired a few years back called Sex Appeal.