Madison

Yeah.

Yeah.

No.

Yes. And then at some point, he kind of upped the ante and was giving out my... address to my home my parents social media handles my sister's social media handles um and like extra information um that was probably actually around the same time that the keys situation happened um probably like that same week or two he had put together a collage

of like photos and information that was like some nude photos of me, some like Facebook, LinkedIn profile pictures of me, my family, all their information below a picture of me and my family. My home address and different information. So around that time, I think he was definitely like kind of upping his ante and was probably getting bored with like what he had been doing prior to that. So yeah.

Having my personal address out there was definitely very scary. Knowing how many, you know, people go on those websites to try to harass and hurt innocent women and children. That kind of was an added scare factor, you know.

So, I think at some point... And we really don't know. Like, I never got the full grasp at, like, what he was doing. But at some point, him going, allegedly going and trying to help on the IT aspect of it to hunt down IP addresses or whatnot, I think he somehow got caught up in, like, the middle of, like, communicating with the perpetrator in back. And then...

was going back and forth with him through emails, which I do know for a fact they were emailing back and forth. I think that at some point, when him and I were breaking up for multiple reasons, not just this situation, I think that he might have...

just been like screw it I'm just gonna send him some additional photos of Madison and he also sent a couple photos of my sister from a photo shoot as well so during that time he had made the situation like added fuel to the fire essentially and made the situation a thousand times worse and

It was very graphic stuff. Like there were, him and I were in a long distance relationship. So he had an arsenal of stuff. from video chats with him and I. Just very explicit, full vagina, full body, everything. Videos and photographs. So it wasn't even just photographs.

So, we were hiding it from our parents. And not that our parents aren't... Like, they wouldn't... They're supportive parents. It's not like we're from like a strict, you know, Catholic family that's gonna shun us and send us away to boarding school, you know, but it was still just that embarrassment factor of like...

we're or we'd like to think we're you know educated smart women and we somehow got ourselves in this situation like i can't imagine wanting to show my dad this is what's going on out there like it would just be the most awful experience exactly like no matter how cool your parents are it's just not that's conversation you want to have with them so how did they become aware

So, I mean, they kind of became aware when they were getting unsolicited images of myself. I don't think ever my sister, but definitely of me. But they were in the same situation. It was like, we'll just delete this. Not knowing the seriousness of it because we didn't tell them the seriousness of it.

So, like, my dad's like, yeah, I just deleted the couple things he sent me because it was, like, awkward, you know? So he kind of didn't even tell us that in the beginning.

Yeah, it was. And it was just because I don't think that... Am I allowed to say that it was fucked up? Yeah, go for it. I'll be able to talk more smoothly if I can say what's on my mind.

Yeah, so at that point, Christine, Dana, and I were getting very good at creeping the dark web and finding information on ourselves to do takedowns. and just kind of clean stuff up. So we had successfully figured out how to take down images from these websites. So we were doing it pretty quickly.

DMCAs are the language.

Like during this time, I had like multiple employers because it literally has spanned over like an eight or nine year period at this point. Managers had been called and harassed on my behalf. So they had seen LinkedIn or Facebook where I worked and they would like call and like harass and ask for like my current boss at the time.

We eventually had gotten and told my parents because Christina and I had a mental breakdown one day and just started bawling, crying, and talking to our parents about it.

Yeah, I think it was just nonstop, and we were trying our hardest, and emotions were high, stress was high. Yeah.

No, and they knew to an extent, but they had no idea like how bad it had been because like they only saw what they had gotten, you know, so they didn't know how bad it actually was.

Yeah, and then other than that... That just fuels it, right?

Yeah, no. Not at all.

Yeah, so it was just a huge break. So it was me... Christine, my sister, Dana, and then my friend John, all four of us were working on this at this time. So once that kind of happened and we got the Kik usernames kind of sorted and figured out that we could cross-reference it, I was like, oh my gosh, back to the Snapchat from... At this point, I think that was probably four or five years prior.

It was a long time ago. And I went back to it and the... when I took the snap of it, which was right after I got the message of, oh, what a beautiful sunset, it was the last person that had viewed my snap.

And I didn't even think that like, oh, I was so quick at snapping it the second that he messaged me that it makes sense that it was the last person that saw it because he went on there, saw it, messaged me, hey, beautiful sunset. I immediately went on snapped the screenshot of who saw it. And that all probably happened within like a minute.

So it makes sense that I'm like, at that point, I'm like, duh, this is the person. Like it has to be.

Christopher.

We knew him from college. He was my brother-in-law Dana's fraternity brother at the college that Christine, Dana, and I went to.

We found this random post that had nothing to do with any of the girls or women. but it was a photo that was what we assumed to be his house. We actually reached out to his fiancee at the time and was like, hey, do you know, like, are you still with this person? Like, is this your house kind of thing? And she's like, yeah, that's my house.

And she kind of confirmed for us that that was like where she had lived with him. So we had that as a clue as well.

I think, like, the nature of online... like cyber harassment is that like you don't have anywhere to run to. So like if you're getting like bullied or like physically harassed, you're like, okay, I can at least run home and like retreat to my room and, you know, be depressed in bed, but you're constantly being harassed and you can't forget like,

anything at home because it's just nonstop being harassed.

Yes. One of the victims, she actually tried to kill herself as well. So one of the girls, she had a really rough time and tried committing suicide as well.

I don't want to say, oh, I was definitely suicidal, but there were definitely times when I was like, is this worth it? And then, I don't know, I was just very down and... It was just really rough. And then getting my twin sister involved, like there were actual days where I was like, her life would be better without me in it.

Like I could definitely see how it's so easy to get so depressed in a situation like this.

Two of the girls had previously caught him as well. And this was before we had gotten in communication with the six victims. And so one of the girls was one of his ex-girlfriends from college. So she obviously knew where the photos came from. She was fairly certain it was him. And she felt close enough to the father. His name's John.

She felt close enough to reach out to him and be like, hey, Chris is doing some really bad things. He's posting my pictures. There's thousands of posts online. Like, he needs to stop. Like, I'm getting the police involved, but, like, can you please help me? And he promised her that he would talk to him, would get him into counseling, would help him.

Like, just please don't, you know, press charges. Same thing happened to another victim that was a family friend up there. She actually narrowed down that it was him after just how he uses, like, punctuation. He would use, like, three dots and a space, which I was like, wow, you like thought of that? That's like actually like so good.

And she literally narrowed it down by that and then called him out on Facebook Messenger and... They, as in Chris and his dad and brother, both named John, they convinced her not to press charges if he promised to stop. And she says, you have to get help. I've been a family friend for a very long time. I feel for you. I love you and your family. I want you to get help.

At this point, she didn't know what the extent of it was to other people. She thought she was the only one. So she felt

horrible when we all got a hold of her and was telling her what was going on um but and obviously wanted to like be in our group and help um so we actually had all of uh the confessions of him confessing it and his brother confessing that he's known that he's does this and we'll get him help and fast forward they've never got him help he continued to

you know, harass innocent women and children for years and years to come after that.

My name is Madison. And gosh, the first question you asked me is already very hard because I kind of don't remember what my life was like before this.

I was studying marketing and communications.

Yeah. Yes. So my twin sister and I actually went to school at the same college.

Yes. So they basically had to recreate all of our subpoenas that my sister and I had done. So on the civil side, we were sending out subpoenas on our behalf on the civil side. So that's how we had all of the to bring to the police stations. So we obviously gave them that information, but from an investigative standpoint, they still have to recreate them.

But it had pretty much already been done, so it was like a good start for them. They don't tell victims much, so I don't know if they found more in their search, but they definitely recreated our subpoenas of the different IPs and IP addresses, and then eventually got to make an arrest.

It was just a weird feeling. It's terrifying in a sense because you're seeing this person in real life. His family is there in real life.

um you know you're gonna have to go up and talk to the judge and give your case in real life not knowing what the judge might think of the situation or even if he understands the situation in total you know it's a very new crime so there's not a lot of like examples of these kind of cases to to kind of go forward um It's just scary all around.

You have random other people you don't even know having to listen to your victim impact speech. It's just terrifying. It's like the only word I can think of.

Oh my gosh. So the judge was asking so many questions and it was so scary because they almost sounded like kind of like victim-shamey kind of at first. And I was like, oh my gosh. Like, is he gonna... Like, is this it? Is this the kind of judge that's gonna be like, well, no, like, this is all your fault? Like, I literally had it in my mind. And I remember...

Like being like a little defensive at some point of his questions because he was like interrupting my victim impact statement, which it was very long, but he was interrupting as he thought of questions. So I was like, he's not even letting me finish. He's just like blurting out questions as I'm, you know, reading this victim impact statement. Like it was...

so terrifying and then he ended up really just being just so confused at like the whole situation like why he's doing this and like he was actually just really upset about everything that he had done but he he showed it by asking a lot of questions and it was so nerve-wracking And it's like in court, the judge is like, what's a nip slip? And I was like, it's exactly what it sounds like.

Your nipple like pops out of the shirt or like whatever you're wearing.

It was, like, we all just were in there, and I literally just, like, breathed heavy and, like, grabbed my fiancé's hand, and I was like, oh, my gosh, like, we did it.

I was about 19 or 20 then. And I had woken up and I remember having like an acquaintance from high school had DM'd me and was like, hey, you know, someone's like harassing you on the internet and they're like posting photos of you and stuff, right? And I was just like, what? No, like send me links, like what's going on?

It was so frustrating, honestly.

So, luckily, the judge did agree with the original judge's decision that it was... a horrible crime that he did not learn his lesson. The only reason he wanted to show remorse was once he got caught and the judge saw right through him and gave him the same exact amount of time, 15 years.

He had the 15 years, and then he also owed my sister and I money for our damages. We're probably never going to see a dime of that in our lives, but it was a nice add-on that, like, they understood our struggles, you know?

Yeah. Happy ending. Yeah, it was really emotional. And the last sentence in my victim impact speech kind of summarized it. And it was, the lone wolf dies, but the pack survives. And that quote just gets me every time because I don't think I personally could have won or survived without any of the other girls. And we're constantly going to have...

almost like the sisterhood of like a pack of wolves. And we didn't even know each other. Most of us didn't know each other before this.

In the photographs, I was covered, but I call them nip slips.

I still to this day don't know exactly where people got those from.

So there was 4chan, which is the big one that I'm sure you're aware of. Yeah. There was at one point, I think it was like mo.com and 4archive, which is like a 4chan archive site. There's motherless.com. There's a few more, but 4chan and the 4chan archive are like the top big ones that are like the bad news bears kind of websites that people go on.

I think it was my full name, my Snapchat, my Facebook, and my phone number.

I think my immediate reaction was just kind of like in shock and not knowing who was trying to hurt me. I think that was like the scariest part is that this was someone that may or may not have known me, but they're trying to hurt me and not knowing who it was. So it's very scary.

That was horrible because literally my phone was like blowing up nonstop at certain times. And of course, it's, you know, never, you know, noon on a Tuesday. It's like... 3, 4 a.m. on a Monday when you have to work the next day, you know? So it was pretty bad. Just even like little things. It sounds so stupid, but in order to turn my phone off, I had to get an alarm clock.

Our phones are alarm clocks, you know? So I would, in the middle of the night, have to turn my phone off and then I would sleep in and be late to work or something because I just wanted some sort of sleep to be able to have a normal day the next day. So I think the phone was the worst part at that point. people would reach out to me. So in the beginning, I would be like, oh, who is this?

Like kind of try to get it out of them who it was. And at that point, I don't think I knew that it was like multiple people, you know? So it just took a really long time to even just grasp like the whole end game of like what people are trying to do and how they're doing it. And it obviously didn't get me very far.

I got a message saying, oh, that's a beautiful sunset that you just saw. I hope you're having fun in the Keys with Jeff, my boyfriend at the time.

Snapchat has, you know, you can see who viewed the images, you know. So I immediately went to my Snapchat and screenshot the people that had seen the photograph. So I was like, it has to be like one of those, at that point, I think 30s. 35 people had seen it or it wasn't a lot of people, but it wasn't like one person, you know?

So I immediately went and like screenshot it really quick and just kind of kept it in my back pocket.

Like those 35 people were my suspects at that point. And this was probably two years into the harassment. It was a while.

Hi, I'm doing well, thanks. How are you?

Wonderful. I'm a mom of four. I'm a native Californian. I've lived here my whole life besides college. And my kids go to a public charter school, thank God. However, I know in the United States we have failing schools. We have failing test scores. We have failing public education in general. The dropout rate is skyrocketing.

And so how would you, saying that the United States is the best country in the entire world, how would you explain that?

Are you confident that David Michael Miller is likely Donna's killer?

Another friend of hers that we have since made contact with said the same thing. She said that she was having issues with this guy and that he would leave her alone and that it sounded bad. But she didn't know who. She never said his name.

Was it you driving Carol's car? Were you the Hispanic guy that the neighbor saw backing out the car that Sunday in 1992? No, absolutely not.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Yep, yep, yep.

Yep.

No, probably not.

Yeah.

Yep.

Yep.

Yes.

Yep.

Mm hmm.

Hmm.

North Fox...

Pemberton. That is...

I think it might have been, yeah.

19.

Um, I just felt head over heels in love with him. Um, I knew he was broke. I knew he didn't have any money and that, that just didn't matter to me. He was just so nice to me and I loved being treated nice. So, um, we got married. Um, I did have him sign a prenup because I was, uh, expecting to inherit a large amount of money from my parents' estate at some point.

I hadn't at that time, but, um, I knew that that would be in the future. And, uh, So he did sign a prenuptial agreement and didn't have any problems with that. Um, however, I started our relationship with just paying all the time. I paid for everything. We'd go out for dinner. I would pay. Um, I already had a place where I lived that I paid for and, uh, you know, et cetera, et cetera.

So I, I understand how I've kind of set a pattern. Um, and at the time it didn't bother me. And, you know, I might want, I also want to add this man's Christian man. He knows the word of God. Um, I really have put this in God's hands and asked for his help. But I just can't figure out why there's no spirit of generosity with him. I've brought up several times, can you please pitch in?

Just kick in. I don't expect half and half. I have plenty of money. I don't need his money. It's just on principle. I just need to know that I'm not just the only one that's supporting us. I feel like I'm, I'm the breadwinner.

He, he did. We are both retired now. Um, he does not have any retirement. I'm 60. He's 64. Um, he took, uh, he took social security early. He was working at that time. And then, um, When you start taking Social Security, you can only work so many hours. You can only make so much money. So that knocked his availability down to where he really couldn't work very much.

But since then, we've both retired and relocated.

I think I'm just trying to figure out if I'm being taken advantage of. Is this just something where I'm being... You know, I've brought something up several times and I just, nothing changes, nothing, it just stays the same. And I don't know if I, well, I guess what my next step should be.

I'm not, no. I'm very afraid of confrontation. I get very nervous about talking about something like this.

Yes. Oh, I do.

And doubt.

I do love him, and I don't want anything to end.

No.

I think just... pitching in say i don't know a thousand dollars a month something something so it's in from what where's he got money from he has social security money and he gets other money so you guys don't have your finances combined at all um we do have a joint checking account but he's never put any money in it so no i mean does he have an avenue to do that He could, yeah.

He could put money in there, yeah, because he's on the account.

I don't know if I would be. To me, it's like you just said. It's not about money. It's more about respect, and I think because this has gone on for so long, and I've allowed it to go on so long, and this pattern's been set now, I want to rewrite the rules, I guess.

Hi, Dave. Hi, John. Thank you so much for taking my call. Sure. What's up? So I'm in a predicament that I've actually made myself. I got married, second marriage for both of us, not quite six years ago. And at that time, I had been through a pretty bad divorce and had a pretty traumatic first marriage. So definitely was healing from that and met this wonderful man, so nice to me and kind to me and

Hello. Thank you for taking my call.

Okay. So basically, I own a residential painting company here with my longtime childhood friend. We basically are splitting the profits right down the middle at around 50%, despite me running the business full-time year-round while he's in school. And he only works for about three and a half months out of the year.

Well, I dropped out of school to start the business. And so when we created the partnership, you know, we just made it 50-50. And then we kind of assumed that it was going to be the same setup as when we worked at a different painting company together. But now, you know, now that we're into it, I'm booking all the work. I paint and run one of the crews year-round.

I'm expanding the network daily, and I'm making most of the gradual improvements to the business. What's he saying, Ashton?

Yeah, we've had multiple conversations about it, and the main argument that he uses is that I currently make He and I, I guess, both make over six figures. And so why do I need any more money? You know, that's kind of his argument. And he just doesn't back down on it.

I'd say it's closer to the latter. It really wasn't super expensive to get into the business. And I know that I don't need the extra money to, like, stay alive. You know, I'll be fine. But my contribution to the business— For past need a long time ago.

Yeah. He's not who you want to be in business with long-term. Yeah, the assumption is that it's going to kind of work itself out because, you know, once he graduates, he's committed to or verbally committed to coming and working full time for the business, you know, and making up for the fact that I kind of built it from the ground up single handedly, you know,

But I don't know if that's going to happen. And I'm only 20. I turn 21 pretty soon. We're doing about half a million in revenue each year. So for me to just throw this away.

What are you worried about? Um, it's not as much as of a worry. I kind of just have like this hope for the future based on our plans and what we've talked about that we're going to be expanding into other industries. And, you know, we're, we're like,

Yeah, yeah, I'd say that's accurate.

Yeah, I guess in a perfect world, and I know this is not what you're advising me to do, but I just have to say it. In a perfect world, we would have a conversation where we do set boundaries, but I've tried to do that before, and he kind of just talks around it, and he gets really emotional, and I feel like I can't have a real conversation, and then we get done with the conversation, and

nothing changes. And then, you know, after a week I'm back to being like, damn, you know, I'm, I'm still getting, still getting the short end of the stick.

Yeah, my question is, first of all, thank you for taking my call. Of course. My question is, should I pay off my house while continuing to look for work?

There is no income. Zero income. There is no income.

Correct. I had been out of work almost a year, so I had set money aside. I've been following the Ramsey program. I set money aside enough to get me through whatever I needed to get to and that year is coming up.

That was just money for housing and bills. I have a separate emergency fund as well.

I have, let's see, what were the numbers here? I have about almost $4,000. That's your emergency fund? Well, so there's $1,900 left for what I had just for the housing expenses.

And then I have $2,000 in an emergency fund. I just broke it down individually.

So that's, and I have enough to pay it off as well.

Okay.

So I have $72,000, $1,900, and $2,000.

I had designated it for... I had it designated in separate accounts. So, say, for example, I needed a car. I don't know what I could pay off a car. Okay, so you had that.

I do.

I'm in my mid-50s. Okay.

That's what I don't understand either.

Well, let me rephrase.

Medical, and I also have a degree in law enforcement.

As an administrative. I held an administrative role.

Around $50,000 a year.

And Madison's like, he would not make that shit up. He would not.

All right. Well, I don't think you need to carry it out. I mean, part of part of being in this group is dealing with being hazed and you're going to have to get on that boat while everyone yells at you. You got to do that.

Go kiss him, make him feel better. Yeah.

Just like a little flick, little flick, flick, flick, flick, flick.

We should go on the road! Garsh and Tuba, do the hits! She's like, I actually would be open to that.

Here comes one right now.

I said it to the gardener last week. He hadn't even turned on the leaf blower yet. I said, fuck you, you little beta bitch.

You're the bitch.

You fucking idiot! Do-do-do, do-do-do. Gorsika-gors, gorsika-gors.

Marsh Berry.

And she said, thank you. Have a good rest of the day.

like well i was like i'm a pretty intuitive guy who knows a lot about ken burns and i don't even know what you're talking about and then he started sliding off the screen very slowly and was replaced in another with another gorgeous black and white sepia toned picture you know it's so funny by the way i can't believe i didn't even connect this connect this dot

He's like, it's a miracle.

Whoa, did you cut it too? Oh, I'm just the kind of guy who notices stuff like that. Yeah.

My armpit hairs are sticking to my chest. Come on.

This is, this shark tooth is bigger than the other, like a normal shark tooth. So even though I can't afford that $10 million mansion around the bend, I can afford big shark teeth.

Okay, well, I hung out with Whitney for a while. He wore white. It was strange.

Well, he's Whitney. He's having a blast. You know him.

Well, if not, Shep's going to cry. I mean, have you ever seen him so emotional?

I was like, no, not that kind of emotional.

Well, they haven't stayed together. One? Nah. She hasn't stayed with him, but not with him. He hasn't stayed with her. Like, don't you think that's weird?

Let's have fun. You'll see I'm worth dating. Come on, come on.

She's like, oh, well, you know, we had fun. It was so beautiful. We got to swim. We talked about corn. So that was good.

So Madison's like, oh, wait a minute, Taylor, you have that necklace, right?

Megalodon cally. Well, sometimes when I get sad, I think at least you're not extinct. Like a megalodon.

Well, seeing shit heartbroken is a little sad. And by sad, I mean hilarious. But, you know, I think he knows what it feels like to get his heart broken. And sometimes that's a lesson that we all need to be taught. Especially if you're a beta.

All right, well, you know what? You guys have a genuine friendship. And I just think that they just need to clear the air and really want to, like, I think they just need to man this, okay? They just need to kiss and make up, all right? They're sisters.

Gosh, I thought I'd get a loved ss, not a sad ss.

I mean, those things are like Austin without dockers.

And I was like, it was amazing. Yeah, it was great.

Yeah, like a simp, like a beta simp.

Well, he can't wrap his head around the fact that she's just not into him, that he, he doesn't, you know, she just, you can't understand that she's just not born for corn, okay? And like, could you imagine bringing all your fucking friends and coming here and then not getting laid? You see him?

Can you just put all your black back on? I'll see you soon, devil.

Yeah, 90%. That's like still an A. That's great.

I'm not poor. I'm not sleeping here. It's ridiculous. I don't have to share a room.

But everyone else is like, oh, fuck Paige.

And Madison's like, uh-uh, we're drinking N.A. now. Come on, man.

yeah yeah and madison's like oh my god that's very honest you know sadly honest disgustingly honest gross honestly disgusting honestly this is this horrible

That's crazy. Like, if you want to see me more, you have to invite me to your birthday dinner.

And she's like, well, you got to with me.

She's like, yeah, but you'll tell me next time, right? I mean, next time if you get a cancerous spot somewhere, will you tell me? He's like, uh, yes, I guess.

Yes, mother.

This is my life.

Oh, gosh, everybody, I'm totally different. It's just me, sweet shop, dating a perfect beauty queen and never wanting anything else.

Well, how dare you? How dare you?

I get emotional just thinking about the impact Patricia's had on me. I mean, she's like a second lover to me.

Is that what I said? She's like a second mother to me. I don't know why I said that. What the hell is wrong with you, Rondal?

It could.

And then she's just like, well, okay, that's true.

And she goes, yeah, I guess that's true. So I guess you just found yourself a brat, huh? Fix it. you know, with that gorgeous face, gorgeous body, who's not a father to your child and who isn't rich, but you know, close. And he's like, yeah, I guess you could say that.

And she's like, well, he's just having so much fun not being here with all of us. You know, he's just, Oh, no, he's having a lot of FOMO, not being here with us. It's what it is.

I'm just a baby with a dream, oh man, a baby with a dream. I'm gonna make it out of this damn crib.

This is the first step along your path to a gateway. A gateway beyond which is discovery. Your own discovery of reality, of truth. Call Crusher, pussy.

Well, here's the thing. It's under my screen and porch.