Malcolm Byrne

that any of your listeners or you or I, that where we're engaging with public services or we're engaging with an institution like a bank that requires state-backed ID, that we make the system as simple and as safe as possible.

And I think what we will see within this is

in the social protection bill that's coming forward.

It will provide the legal basis for this use.

And the question is, look, the ultimate aim is for somebody, and it's by choice, that if they want to use a public services card as a form of ID rather than a passport or a driving licence,

because they may not have them or they may not wish to use them, then they should be able to do that.

There is choice.

It's not compulsory.

But I think our objective as government is we have to try to ensure that we make life as easy as possible for our citizens.

It's certainly something that I'm regularly asked about.

And yes, TJ is entirely right.

We have to have the safeguards that are in place.

And I think as part of the pre-legislative scrutiny and as this bill is being debated through the Oireachtas, we will ensure that that will happen.

Yeah, I accept that.

And the key in terms of what we're talking about here is about making sure that there is a legal basis to be able to do that.

I mean, there is a responsibility on the state to establish very clearly that somebody who is making a claim for whatever support or whatever payments, that they are who they say they are.

So there is a requirement to do that.

There's obviously a responsibility on the state to make sure that the necessary protections are in place, that if we're storing anyone's data as a state,

that that is safeguarded and it's only used for that purpose.

But I think most people don't find it the idea unreasonable that if you're accessing public services, that there is a requirement for you to prove exactly who you are.