Malcolm Gladwell

Now, you said something earlier that you didn't speak black English growing up. Why not? That's deep, Malcolm, actually.

I remember the first time I saw that kind of, the switching, as a kid in Jamaica, seeing my uncle, you know, a brown-skinned Jamaican, who talked to us in the Queen's English, and he was getting gas, had a gas pump. That must have been amazing. I'm maybe nine. He gets out of the car, and he starts talking to the guy pumping the gas. And there's some, it wasn't just that he switched into patois.

I remember the first time I saw that kind of, the switching, as a kid in Jamaica, seeing my uncle, you know, a brown-skinned Jamaican, who talked to us in the Queen's English, and he was getting gas, had a gas pump. That must have been amazing. I'm maybe nine. He gets out of the car, and he starts talking to the guy pumping the gas. And there's some, it wasn't just that he switched into patois.

It was that he also, his manner completely changed.

It was that he also, his manner completely changed.

They were doing that Jamaican thing where they're shouting at each other even though they're not angry. Yes. Which I had never seen before. I thought this was the coolest thing I'd ever seen in my entire life. That he could go from literally, Malcolm blah, blah, blah, and then boom.

They were doing that Jamaican thing where they're shouting at each other even though they're not angry. Yes. Which I had never seen before. I thought this was the coolest thing I'd ever seen in my entire life. That he could go from literally, Malcolm blah, blah, blah, and then boom.

That must have been amazing. That's right. Then I began to hear my mother when she would get angry. She would lapse, not into full-on Patois, but You could hear the Jamaican coming out of voice.

That must have been amazing. That's right. Then I began to hear my mother when she would get angry. She would lapse, not into full-on Patois, but You could hear the Jamaican coming out of voice.

The vernacular.

The vernacular.

That idea as well. No, it's funny, because I'm making the same, on some level, observations you are as a child, but I have no... What sidetracks me at that age is not how people are speaking, but how they're explaining things. I get obsessed in the same way that you, I think, it's funny, in the same way that you get obsessed with how your people are expressing themselves. Grammar, yeah.

That idea as well. No, it's funny, because I'm making the same, on some level, observations you are as a child, but I have no... What sidetracks me at that age is not how people are speaking, but how they're explaining things. I get obsessed in the same way that you, I think, it's funny, in the same way that you get obsessed with how your people are expressing themselves. Grammar, yeah.

To me, it was about, we're playing hearts and our cousin doesn't know how to play hearts and my brother starts explaining hearts to my cousin. He's doing it all wrong. That was my obsession. I'm six, I'm just like, why, why, start with the point of the game. Like, what are you doing? You know, like that. And I realized how deeply kind of... And it bothered you? Oh, to this day, it works.

To me, it was about, we're playing hearts and our cousin doesn't know how to play hearts and my brother starts explaining hearts to my cousin. He's doing it all wrong. That was my obsession. I'm six, I'm just like, why, why, start with the point of the game. Like, what are you doing? You know, like that. And I realized how deeply kind of... And it bothered you? Oh, to this day, it works.

I get bothered by it.

I get bothered by it.

No, no, no. The surest way for me to completely lose my cool is to read instructions that someone has written for something. Just like, what is this? I mean, come on. I want to call up the company and volunteer my services. We'll be right back with more of my conversation with John McWhorter. I want to talk a little bit about your, and by the way,

No, no, no. The surest way for me to completely lose my cool is to read instructions that someone has written for something. Just like, what is this? I mean, come on. I want to call up the company and volunteer my services. We'll be right back with more of my conversation with John McWhorter. I want to talk a little bit about your, and by the way,

I always find this question, if it's asked of me, deeply annoying. So you don't have to answer it if you don't want to. But I wanted to talk about your kind of place in the culture right now, which is really interesting to me. And I have a grand unified John McWhorter theory.