Manny Roman

And I think you have to be very humble about these things and just say, look, we'll take it one step at a time and see what the market gives us.

And by the way, there may be other opportunities which are more attractive.

You know, you look, for example, in an asset-backed finance business, aircraft leasing.

Aircraft leasing is incredibly interesting, and then nothing happens for five years, and then it becomes very interesting again.

And you've got to constantly say to yourself, are there better opportunities for me to deploy money?

And what do I want to do?

How do I think about the risk?

How will I get out?

What's the right risk-return profile?

Well, my partner, Dan Iverson, and our CIO of core, Mohit Mittal, have the chart.

And we checked the number about 20 times because we kind of didn't believe it.

But it shows the return on weak single B.

which is a reasonably good proxy for direct lending.

And what you see is you make money because the yield is higher, and then there's a recession, and then you lose it all.

And so I'm old enough to remember 1991.

I saw that.

You know, there's a recession which came out of nowhere from, you know, essentially SNL having too much high yield.

1997, the world is absolutely fine until there's an Asian crisis and then you have LTCM and then things become very cheap.

And so you've got to remember these things.

And we have been in a period since 2009 of exceptionalism where you have had very,