Margaret Atwood

So it is a street party in some way, banding together with like-minded people and feeling you've accomplished something, especially if people tell you that this thing that you're doing is basically good. It's very potent. And if it weren't fun on some level, people wouldn't do it. Isn't that a terrible thing to say that it's fun?

So it is a street party in some way, banding together with like-minded people and feeling you've accomplished something, especially if people tell you that this thing that you're doing is basically good. It's very potent. And if it weren't fun on some level, people wouldn't do it. Isn't that a terrible thing to say that it's fun?

But I don't know whether you read Bill Buford's essay on joining football hooligan gangs.

But I don't know whether you read Bill Buford's essay on joining football hooligan gangs.

the adrenaline, you know, the exhilaration, the feeling that I haven't had this much fun since like forever. I'm just having a, I feel so alive, you know, hitting people in the nose, etc. And people describe the sort of battle energy that comes over them. And there is a real adrenaline rush that happens. And we can't leave that out. You cannot leave that out.

the adrenaline, you know, the exhilaration, the feeling that I haven't had this much fun since like forever. I'm just having a, I feel so alive, you know, hitting people in the nose, etc. And people describe the sort of battle energy that comes over them. And there is a real adrenaline rush that happens. And we can't leave that out. You cannot leave that out.

Well, now. Now we're getting into it. Now we're getting into the problem, okay? 19th century was a century of utopias. So many of them were written that Gilbert and Sullivan write an opera called Utopia Limited, which has a satire on it. But you only satirize something that's a thing, you know, that's become a vogue. Why did they write so many utopias?

Well, now. Now we're getting into it. Now we're getting into the problem, okay? 19th century was a century of utopias. So many of them were written that Gilbert and Sullivan write an opera called Utopia Limited, which has a satire on it. But you only satirize something that's a thing, you know, that's become a vogue. Why did they write so many utopias?

Because they'd already made so many amazing discoveries that had changed things. So germs, who knew about them? We know about them now. And look what we can do now that we know about germs. Maybe now we'll wash our hands before delivering babies and giving everybody puerperal fever the way we had been doing before. Steam engines, wow, this is amazing. Steam machinery in factories, look at that.

Because they'd already made so many amazing discoveries that had changed things. So germs, who knew about them? We know about them now. And look what we can do now that we know about germs. Maybe now we'll wash our hands before delivering babies and giving everybody puerperal fever the way we had been doing before. Steam engines, wow, this is amazing. Steam machinery in factories, look at that.

Sewing machines, wow. Before that, it was all hand sewing. And what might be coming, Jules Verne writing about submarines on the way, air travel around the world in 80 days. So it was just going to get better. There were some problems like the woman problem, but the utopias usually solved those.

Sewing machines, wow. Before that, it was all hand sewing. And what might be coming, Jules Verne writing about submarines on the way, air travel around the world in 80 days. So it was just going to get better. There were some problems like the woman problem, but the utopias usually solved those.

by giving the women a better deal and less clothing, and all different kinds, and they solved overpopulation various ways. One of them was that the future people just wouldn't be interested in sex. So I read a lot of those when I was a Victorianist, and then people stopped writing them in the 20th century. Why? Because too many of them were tried in real life on a grand scale.

by giving the women a better deal and less clothing, and all different kinds, and they solved overpopulation various ways. One of them was that the future people just wouldn't be interested in sex. So I read a lot of those when I was a Victorianist, and then people stopped writing them in the 20th century. Why? Because too many of them were tried in real life on a grand scale.

So Soviet Union comes in as a utopia. Hitler's Germany comes in as a utopia, though only for certain people. Soviet Union tried to be more inclusive, but first you had to kill those people like the Cossacks and Kulaks and what have you. But then But then you can have the utopia. And Mao's China comes in as a utopia. And lots of others. And then it's not great.

So Soviet Union comes in as a utopia. Hitler's Germany comes in as a utopia, though only for certain people. Soviet Union tried to be more inclusive, but first you had to kill those people like the Cossacks and Kulaks and what have you. But then But then you can have the utopia. And Mao's China comes in as a utopia. And lots of others. And then it's not great.

So instead we get We by Evgeny Zemyatin. We get 1984. We get Fahrenheit 451. It's not great. And it becomes very difficult to write a utopia because nobody believes it anymore. They'd seen the results. But I think we're getting back to, if not, let's have utopia, but first we have to kill all those people.

So instead we get We by Evgeny Zemyatin. We get 1984. We get Fahrenheit 451. It's not great. And it becomes very difficult to write a utopia because nobody believes it anymore. They'd seen the results. But I think we're getting back to, if not, let's have utopia, but first we have to kill all those people.

I think we're getting to the point where we're saying, unless we improve the way we're living, unless we change the way we're living, goodbye, Homo sapiens sapiens. You cannot continue on a planet as a mid-sized, land-based, oxygen-breathing mammal if there isn't enough oxygen, which is what will happen if we kill the oceans and cut down all the trees. So we are looking into the...

I think we're getting to the point where we're saying, unless we improve the way we're living, unless we change the way we're living, goodbye, Homo sapiens sapiens. You cannot continue on a planet as a mid-sized, land-based, oxygen-breathing mammal if there isn't enough oxygen, which is what will happen if we kill the oceans and cut down all the trees. So we are looking into the...