Mariana Mazzucato

As bold as going to the moon and back in a short amount of time.

The missions that then require sectoral support, but you're not getting support because you are a particular sector.

You're getting support if you're willing, so moving away from picking winners to picking the willing, if you're willing to work with government around these very difficult challenges, which could be as, I don't want to say simple, but as concrete as making sure that every child in a country

has healthy, tasty, sustainable school lunch.

Not just school lunch, that was the Reagan thing where he said ketchup is a vegetable so we can reduce the cost.

We all had t-shirts of Reagan and ketchup, which was the vegetable, is what the t-shirt said.

So having moonshots, even on something as simple as a cafeteria, that then requires innovation across many different areas.

It requires government to wake up and not just have that be done, for example, from the Department of Education.

you know, Department of Agriculture, Health, Education, Finance would work together on a moonshot of healthy, tasty, sustainable school lunch.

So that inter-ministerial coordination, which we saw during COVID, right?

So we had the war room, the situation room, you know, the military, education, health, and so on together because we had

these really difficult challenges.

But as soon as COVID stops, we go back to very siloed ways of thinking.

What's the definition?

So we actually distinguish between the word capacity, routines, kind of administrative routines, and then capabilities.

So what states are often, what governments are often lacking are those kind of dynamic capabilities.

So capacity partly is like literally do you even have fiscal space?

Do you have a budget?

But also, how are you thinking about that budget in terms of do you, well, put it this way, capacity is, you know, number of people working in your administration, the budget that's been allocated, perhaps also the training, you know, that the civil service actually has, but capabilities are what you actually then do with it.

Are you agile?