Mariana Mazzucato

Are you flexible?

Are you able to pivot during COVID and actually start working in this more, again, interministerial way?

Do you know how to work with others, right?

You know, do you set up good partnerships or are they problematic partnerships?

And also you were talking before about what you're learning here, which is fantastic about how mayors can learn from each other, right?

Have you invested in your ability to learn, to adapt?

And so I think that ladder, this concept of dynamic capabilities is a much more complex area to be investing in.

And the only reason you would do it is if you actually have a theory about government that is more than what traditional economists think about government, which is at best, well, at worst, get out of the way, at best, fix the market failure.

So as soon as you say, actually, it's about shaping and co-creating a different type of economy and society that works for people and planet, then the question is, what does that mean for the capabilities that you need?

If you're just fixing, then you just need a lot of bandages.

And that's, in fact, what we get.

We get very reactive, kind of filling the gap kind of policies.

Exactly.

But I mean, capacity, of course, is essential without, you know, a budget and fiscal space, you can do nothing.

That third category that I mentioned quickly, administrative routines, that's, you know, are you also, you know, do you have a stable environment where you can learn by doing?

Because if you're constantly changing what you're doing.

It's going to be hard to have a learning by doing dynamics.

So those kind of administrative routines, I even see this in my university, where as soon as you get a lot of turnover, even those kind of basic routines aren't there.

But capability, so these three areas, capacity, routines, and capabilities are equally important, but the capabilities are really what I find are lacking.

And it goes back, as I was mentioning before,