Marie Gleeson

Yeah, totally.

So I can remember navigating one of those conversations.

But yeah, like there's a book or a chapter in the book where I say a ship is only as good as our captain.

And the lessons that I learned about how to deal with people and how to speak to people and how to get the best out of people or vice versa, you know, how your presence can actually impact negatively on someone and undermine their confidence.

Like when you're a navigation officer and you're responsible for navigating a ship, there's a unique relationship between you and the captain.

And when you're giving that recommendation to the captain, how they answer you.

So if they acknowledge you in a positive sense, they can still ask you a question, but it doesn't undermine your confidence.

Whereas if they're like, really come to port, are you telling me to come to port?

And you're like, oh, am I?

Yes, I am.

So it's just the tonality piece.

But I think I was very lucky and I know not everybody was as lucky, but I did meet really good people along the way in the main and the people that I didn't, that I met that weren't great people probably helped me to be a better leader in the future and a better captain and a better person.

I was surprised in that I wouldn't have had firsthand experience of it and I wouldn't have had a massive awareness of it.

And I talk about this in the book in that, you know, it was two years after I left the Navy when the Women of Honor documentary came out.

And I can tell you, I sat at the kitchen table and I was devastated for the women who were telling their stories.

But particularly for me, there was a story of a young girl in the Navy who had this horrendous experience where, you know, she found herself in this difficult circumstance on a ship.

And people behaving totally inappropriately.

And I suppose for me, part of it was the shock of why didn't somebody step in and stop it?

Because it was ridiculously silly behaviour.

It was totally inappropriate.