Mark Caputo

And as a result of that deal, a lot of people didn't know all of the dirty, terrible things that Epstein had actually done because the plea deal made his crimes look far less severe than they really were.

And as a result, a lot of people who came into contact with Epstein afterward

We're not aware of the full suite of crimes that today we are.

And now to a degree, and I don't want to criticize Sarah, my former boss at the Bulwark.

And was that Alex who was interviewing her with whom I have conversations?

Alex Wagner.

Yeah.

Don't want to criticize him for this, but we need to remember that what was known immediately after Epstein's conviction, his serving of a sentence.

Remember, he was given of this such a sweetheart plea deal that he was allowed to basically get out of jail.

Right.

It didn't he didn't look like a child rapist to the average person.

and the records were sealed as most records are so people didn't know the extent of his crimes so therefore the howard lutnick's of the world and a lot of these people in high society thought okay he had sex with a 17 year old prostitute this is what they thought i'm not saying it's fair and i'm not saying it's right but it certainly didn't reflect the broader crimes so for today for us to look back and think that everyone in 2008 9 10 11 12

13, 14, and 15 knew this extent of crimes, they didn't.

What started to really change was Julie Brown at the Miami Herald exposing this, looking back and saying, oh my God, there was so much more.

And so I don't think there's only kind of two types of people involved here.

There is a grayer area.

But I do think beyond...

a shadow of a doubt that DOJ could have handled the situation better.

They could have been more transparent about their process of redacting and a little clearer in communicating that, and they haven't been.

And that's why, again, I think they're in the box that they're in, and I don't know how to.