Mark Carney

And these trade arrangements that the U.S. was able to negotiate with Europe were extremely beneficial to the United States, in part because of this alliance relationship. So it wasn't just about security. It was also about prosperity.

And these trade arrangements that the U.S. was able to negotiate with Europe were extremely beneficial to the United States, in part because of this alliance relationship. So it wasn't just about security. It was also about prosperity.

Right. For both sides, it was a major win-win. And it seemed like this was an unbreakable bond, that the U.S. would never turn away from Europe, and Europe would never turn away from us. Why would they? It was a status quo that could last really forever. But then that changed. And here I'm not talking about Donald Trump. All of this actually begins with Barack Obama.

Right. For both sides, it was a major win-win. And it seemed like this was an unbreakable bond, that the U.S. would never turn away from Europe, and Europe would never turn away from us. Why would they? It was a status quo that could last really forever. But then that changed. And here I'm not talking about Donald Trump. All of this actually begins with Barack Obama.

Yeah, so even though Barack Obama is not commonly identified as being anywhere close to President Trump on his relations with allies, Some of this slight suspicion for or sense of wanting to look beyond Europe began during the Obama presidency. If you recall, a major foreign policy initiative of the Obama years was the pivot to Asia.

Yeah, so even though Barack Obama is not commonly identified as being anywhere close to President Trump on his relations with allies, Some of this slight suspicion for or sense of wanting to look beyond Europe began during the Obama presidency. If you recall, a major foreign policy initiative of the Obama years was the pivot to Asia.

So Obama came into office, I think, really persuaded that the country's economic future lay in Asia and China.

So Obama came into office, I think, really persuaded that the country's economic future lay in Asia and China.

He was really looking much more eastward, pivoting away from, to a great extent, from Europe.

He was really looking much more eastward, pivoting away from, to a great extent, from Europe.

And it's not because Barack Obama didn't want to have good relations with Europe and didn't believe in NATO, but he felt that the nation's focus ought to be more on the relationship with China, and he didn't want so much of the foreign policy and economic focus of the country to be on Europe and the European Union.

And it's not because Barack Obama didn't want to have good relations with Europe and didn't believe in NATO, but he felt that the nation's focus ought to be more on the relationship with China, and he didn't want so much of the foreign policy and economic focus of the country to be on Europe and the European Union.

So you have to understand how big a shift this is for an American president not to place Europe at the center of American foreign policy really breaks with decades of foreign policy doctrine in the United States. And this even came up in the 2012 campaign when Obama debated Mitt Romney, the Republican nominee.

So you have to understand how big a shift this is for an American president not to place Europe at the center of American foreign policy really breaks with decades of foreign policy doctrine in the United States. And this even came up in the 2012 campaign when Obama debated Mitt Romney, the Republican nominee.

When Romney raised the threat posed by Russia and Vladimir Putin, Obama mocked him.

When Romney raised the threat posed by Russia and Vladimir Putin, Obama mocked him.

And suggested that he was stuck in the past.

And suggested that he was stuck in the past.

You've been wrong. Also, President Obama was not persuaded that America's vital strategic interests lay in countries like Ukraine. Famously, in 2014, he gathered a number of foreign policy specialists together and asked them, what is America's strategic interest in Ukraine?

You've been wrong. Also, President Obama was not persuaded that America's vital strategic interests lay in countries like Ukraine. Famously, in 2014, he gathered a number of foreign policy specialists together and asked them, what is America's strategic interest in Ukraine?