Mark Dunkelman

And I think that's an interesting model in these other realms.

How are we going to, how are progressives going to change decision-making processes across the board so that we can make expeditious decisions?

I just want to come back.

I think this is a perfect case for abundance in this sense.

To Derek's point, we're now got incredibly expensive fossil fuel energy because of the current crisis.

But...

Set that aside.

We have at our fingertips technology that makes it possible for us to replace much of that with clean, environmentally sensitive forms of electricity generation.

The thing that we don't have, the real cog in the wheel, is transmission.

It is the fact that clean energy is created in certain places.

It used to be that you would mine the coal or bring the oil or gas through a pipeline to the place where it was going to be actually converted into electricity, and then it would be

brought locally to the people who were nearby.

Now we've got the problem of having the wind and the solar and whatever else is being generated in places that are far away from where the load is going to be expended.

And we need to build lines that connect the generation to the place where people want to use the electricity.

You've got a solar farm here and you've got a city here and between the three of them are a wealthy neighborhood, a pristine forest and a struggling, more marginalized neighborhood.

The line has to go through one of those three places.

And abundant Democrats have not articulated that.

The way that we're going to come to that decision expeditiously, we have sort of given into our fantasy that if you just put these three groups, some of whom are going to be affected by this new transmission line, into a room and have them articulate their problem, we will magically come to some sort of consensus.

But in most cases we don't, and we often get tripped up by it.

And I think this is the big coming challenge for abundance.