Mark Follman

It's interesting that the thinking about those tactics has shifted. Originally, my understanding of it, the original version of that was the first thing you should do is try to hide in a school, like in a closet or be quiet, lock the doors, turn off the lights. That's a big part of the lockdown drill training that goes on now in schools. Second choice is run away. Third choice is last resort.

It's interesting that the thinking about those tactics has shifted. Originally, my understanding of it, the original version of that was the first thing you should do is try to hide in a school, like in a closet or be quiet, lock the doors, turn off the lights. That's a big part of the lockdown drill training that goes on now in schools. Second choice is run away. Third choice is last resort.

It's interesting that the thinking about those tactics has shifted. Originally, my understanding of it, the original version of that was the first thing you should do is try to hide in a school, like in a closet or be quiet, lock the doors, turn off the lights. That's a big part of the lockdown drill training that goes on now in schools. Second choice is run away. Third choice is last resort.

You fight back. If the guy's in the room, you throw a stapler at him or whatever. But that actually shifted. I think there are a number of experts in security who say, now you should just get the hell out. The first thing you should do is leave.

You fight back. If the guy's in the room, you throw a stapler at him or whatever. But that actually shifted. I think there are a number of experts in security who say, now you should just get the hell out. The first thing you should do is leave.

You fight back. If the guy's in the room, you throw a stapler at him or whatever. But that actually shifted. I think there are a number of experts in security who say, now you should just get the hell out. The first thing you should do is leave.

Don't hide because they're going to come in and shoot you in the closet. That's happened in a lot of cases, tragically. I think that's why it's run, hide, fight.

Don't hide because they're going to come in and shoot you in the closet. That's happened in a lot of cases, tragically. I think that's why it's run, hide, fight.

Don't hide because they're going to come in and shoot you in the closet. That's happened in a lot of cases, tragically. I think that's why it's run, hide, fight.

But then meanwhile, we've got a lot of schools that are training kids to all quickly scramble to the corner of the room, turn off the lights and pull the shades. That's not running. That's sheltering in place. There are questions about it tactically. But again, I think for me, the bigger question is like, why aren't we talking more about prevention and putting more resources into that?

But then meanwhile, we've got a lot of schools that are training kids to all quickly scramble to the corner of the room, turn off the lights and pull the shades. That's not running. That's sheltering in place. There are questions about it tactically. But again, I think for me, the bigger question is like, why aren't we talking more about prevention and putting more resources into that?

But then meanwhile, we've got a lot of schools that are training kids to all quickly scramble to the corner of the room, turn off the lights and pull the shades. That's not running. That's sheltering in place. There are questions about it tactically. But again, I think for me, the bigger question is like, why aren't we talking more about prevention and putting more resources into that?

You should never have a person entering a school building with a firearm in the first place who's intent on doing this. And that's about a lot more than metal detectors.

You should never have a person entering a school building with a firearm in the first place who's intent on doing this. And that's about a lot more than metal detectors.

You should never have a person entering a school building with a firearm in the first place who's intent on doing this. And that's about a lot more than metal detectors.

I have it on school shootings broadly. At least at the time that I was finishing the research for trigger points, the probability of being shot in a shooting at a school was something like one in two million for a student in America. So it's a highly unlikely thing to happen. Part of the problem with trying to come up with these statistics is that

I have it on school shootings broadly. At least at the time that I was finishing the research for trigger points, the probability of being shot in a shooting at a school was something like one in two million for a student in America. So it's a highly unlikely thing to happen. Part of the problem with trying to come up with these statistics is that

I have it on school shootings broadly. At least at the time that I was finishing the research for trigger points, the probability of being shot in a shooting at a school was something like one in two million for a student in America. So it's a highly unlikely thing to happen. Part of the problem with trying to come up with these statistics is that

There is no official or perfect way to measure mass shootings because the criteria varies and there is no perfect criteria. How many people do you need to get shot to have a mass shooting? There's some subjective choices that have been made in the criteria. When I first started studying this, intensively in 2012.

There is no official or perfect way to measure mass shootings because the criteria varies and there is no perfect criteria. How many people do you need to get shot to have a mass shooting? There's some subjective choices that have been made in the criteria. When I first started studying this, intensively in 2012.