Matt Forde

So I don't want to be pigeonholed.

I don't want to be seen as old Labour or new Labour.

I'm classic Labour.

You know, even resisted the idea that starmerism existed.

And I think I understand why politicians are doing that when they're trying to become leader of a party.

But it actually helps the public.

To be clear, you say, OK, you're one of those left-wing Labour people or you're a right-wing Labour person.

This is just shorthand phrases that allow the public to go, OK, if you're on the Blairite end, you're going to be pro-business, tough on crime.

If you're on the Corbyn end, you're going to have different priorities.

And it's not ignoble for the public to want to know where on that actually quite broad spectrum you would sit.

And I always got the sense that Keir Starmer didn't want to have that conversation at all, whereas Burnham, perhaps a bit more keen to define himself.

You know, I don't think people mind the odd relaunch or the reset.

You know, if you're getting things wrong or just cause, people expect that.

And obviously, when Tony Blair first came, you know, he's seen now as a very clearly defined political creed.

At the time, his nickname was Bambi.

It was all government by focus group.

He didn't stand for anything.

Actually, history has judged him to be a deeply ideological leader and very single minded over one particular issue.

So I don't think people mind it when you first start.

Something to do with recycling, I think.