Matt Kaplan

would get him somewhere.

And it got him to the insane asylum, which wasn't good.

Katsi Kariko, I've interviewed her, and she's lovely.

She's very fast.

She's hard to follow.

So she's a science journalist's, not their dream.

Let's put it that way.

It's hard to interview her.

I think her grant proposals were also not perfect.

And when you've got thousands of grant proposals going out to grant awarding bodies, and they're only going to grant 1% of the money, they're very quick to remove anything that doesn't look exactly right.

And I think Kati fell into interesting idea, but not exactly right.

And as a result, she wasn't getting funded.

And so Simmelweis and Kati are actually kindred spirits.

I almost called the book a tale of two Hungarians instead of, I told you so, scientists who are ridiculed, exiled, and imprisoned for being right, because I thought the parallel between the two of them was so strong.

But then you also look at other people who are on to childbed fever, preparal fever, and trying to defeat it, and other scientists who were right and got excoriated for it.

And I realized, no, I don't want to make it just about these two Hungarians.

It's

It's a bigger story.

But we see it all the time in science today.

And it's terrible.