Matt Kepnes

Well, I did it very poorly because travel is a really small niche.

So there's not like, you don't really see big advances unless you're like Anthony Bourdain.

So I had the misfortune of one having a really bad agent and

And to write, as we were negotiating my deal, borders books closed.

So like the leverage of the market was a lot smaller than, um, but basically they came to me and said, you want to do this book for 30 grand?

Um,

And I said, well, I already had a deal in hand, so I didn't really push it too hard.

Because at the time, it wasn't so much about the money as in travel, having a published guide makes you a lot more of a credible source.

So it was more about growing the brand

and legitimatizing me.

I'm not just some travel blogger.

I'm not a travel writer.

I'm an expert.

So I care less about the money and more about what it would do for the brand.

Like 50 or 60,000.

It's a very niche market who's going to buy that book, but it positioned me really as an expert in the budget travel field.

And so...

the multiplier effect of that through media and like posts on him, Ferris's website and podcasts like yours and, you know, getting on like James Altucher's stuff, um,

has really allowed me to grow me as an expert.

It's whatever the standard first-time author thing is.