Matt Kielty

And one of the things that we found fascinating was that in the pivotal 1954 Brown v. Board segregation case, one of the crucial arguments made by the opponents of segregation was... The dolls.

Yes, the dolls.

On how black children prefer a white doll over a black doll.

The theory being that they'd sort of been given low self-esteem by society.

And Michael says it's also right around here that you get Maslow.

And his famous hierarchy.

Hierarchy of needs.

You got it.

Although whether it's actually a hierarchy or not is a bit of a controversy.

I always see it as a pyramid.

It's a pyramid.

But Maslow himself never drew it as a pyramid.

So Maslow's whole thing is that you have all these different needs and they all need to be fulfilled in order to become the best version of yourself.

Needs like food, water, sleep.

Security, stability.

Friendship, intimacy.

And a positive self-esteem.

A feeling of self-worth.

While John is giving these speeches, self-esteem is becoming a bigger part of psychology.

And it was in the early 80s that these two things, self-esteem and John Vasconcellos, start to circle each other and become this much bigger thing.