Matt Kielty

Does the involvement in alcohol for years or decades constitute the causal basis for the feelings of worthlessness that we discovered in people who have been involved in that?

So he was basically saying to them, we have some okay correlational links.

And of course, as we all know, correlation isn't causation.

And he was saying, but other links are not at all correlational.

And we do have correlational links.

You've got to ask that basic question, what is causing what?

And he warns them later in the recording.

He says, you've got to be careful about correlation and causation.

And he said, you've got to avoid the sin of overselling.

He said, nobody can want to do that.

You don't want to do that.

And certainly we don't want to do that.

And yet that's exactly what they did.

Literally what happened.

Oh, yeah.

We had many, many conversations.

And we talked to Mitch, John's friend about all this.

Arguments, if you will, like what's the actual nature of the research that's going to happen here?

They'd argue about the research, how John interpreted it.

And constantly challenged whatever he was looking at, you know.