Matt Mahan

So not that we necessarily disagree about that, but I just, I do think there's sort of this sense of like, well, I'll just vote, maybe do my jury duty, pay my taxes, and then you guys should just figure out the rest.

And I just don't know how realistic that is because I think what happens is you end up in the situation we have in Sacramento where the electeds are then responsive to the people who are participating at very high levels, the very organized interests, and they need to be hearing from and held accountable by and to the constituents, to the average, to the community.

Fair enough.

Yeah.

I do think we all though can play a constructive role in kind of batting that down.

I think that we sort of get the politics we deserve and that we need to all think about what is it we're liking and sharing on social media?

What is it we're celebrating?

Are we more interested in

the horse race or the boxing match versus an actual dialogue about how we solve our problems.

And so to some extent, this is a reflection of the incentives created by our culture and the way that we choose to engage.

So I think we can all play a role in maybe reminding our friends and neighbors and

folks were engaged with online that just cheering for or sharing the most egregious meme is not really the practice of citizenship and doesn't lead to a healthy democracy but on your earlier point i mean my my mom says and before her my grandmother used to always say the the road to hell is paved with good intention and i think the progressive left

or whatever the right term is, has focused so much on trying to address big structural issues and has such a deep academic understanding of the failures of government and failed public policies of the past that we've stopped addressing the basics.

We have somehow ended up in a situation where

We're not adequately enforcing laws, maintaining and cleaning up safe, accessible public space, enabling our children to read in elementary school.

I mean, these are very basic, issuing a permit quickly and efficiently so someone can build a home.

I mean, you think about the most basic things that a functioning society has to provide

we're really struggling to deliver on stuff that ought to be very simple in a way.

I think in part because we're almost distracted and scared of just sort of all the ways things can go wrong or all the bigger structural things that we want to tackle.

I think it actually somewhat comes out of the educations we get in our