Mehdi Hassan

So, for example, the Henry Novak story that's been roiling the UK, that's become part of the immigration debate.

You have J.D.

Vance weighing in from the U.S.

My understanding is, correct me if I'm wrong.

Aided and abetted by hard right folks in the UK.

But of course, how many people in the UK know that the person who killed him was born in the UK and his father was born in the UK?

This is a problem where everything comes back to immigration.

You suddenly say illegal immigration when it's a refugee.

We've had the same debate in the US where, again, Trump said, oh, we're not after legal immigration.

We're only after illegal immigration.

Then they come into office and they've cut legal immigration.

So I agree with you, but we have a Labour government, right, which came in and now they have Shabana Mahmood, a brown woman who's very cracking down on migration.

And yet they brought the numbers down.

My understanding is immigration numbers have come down massively over the last year.

And yet when you look at the polling, the public doesn't know or doesn't believe it.

But there is a poll that I saw that showed 50% of Britain still think it's the same numbers it was a year ago.

There's a big chunk of people in terms of the numbers.

And so, for example, that becomes an issue then because then you say, well, it's actually the public just want action to be taken.

Action is taken and the public either don't recognise it or don't believe it.

So then it becomes a messaging problem.