Mia Freedman

Like we need to lay our cards on the table here that we've all heard examples of that.

Oh, you have.

And I think that there's a video going around at the moment of the Beckhams and Brooklyn and Nicola at the premiere of Beckham, the David documentary.

And even at that point, Nicola wants nothing to do with Victoria.

And I have to say, Victoria is not extending much of an olive branch either.

Whatever happened, there's a particular dynamic there that it's naive of us not to point out.

Think of Mia Friedman's famous piece which she talks about the idea that the mother-son relationship is a woman's longest breakup.

But Holly, that hit a chord with so many women.

I know it did.

She hasn't eaten a chocolate since the 90s, as she told us in the documentary.

And there's often an expectation the wife's family is going to be the sort of quote-unquote winner in that tug-of-war.

Her aesthetic is so different from Victoria's to start off with.

No wonder there was a disagreement over the wedding dress.

And Nicola really is unusually enmeshed in her own family too.

I don't want it to seem like I'm taking her side here.

I find her Instagram really odd.

She posted recently a slideshow of pictures of her kind of like walking around her parents' palatial Florida estate with her, a close-up of her mother.

Very strange pictures to post of your parents.

I don't know what that's about either.

And I do think there's a political element here too, which is that, as you mentioned earlier,