Michael B. Jordan

have such dimensionalizing consequences for what happens in one battle after another.

Right?

I mean, you are... This is two movies about...

black people in america and the forces that are trying to almost literally extinguish and expunge and absorb and and and you know rid white people of or or for white people to sort of capitalize off of um in the case of sinners it's just i don't know i i do feel great that these these seem like the two movies that people were most enthusiastic about

Um, and you could feel just in the terms of the way the, the winners broke down.

I don't remember exactly how many centers wound up with versus one battle after another, but they, it feels close to me.

Um, but you know, then there, I mean, can you talk about Sean Penn for a second?

Was that Meryl Streep, Daniel Day-Lewis, Jack Nicholson?

Sean Penn's got 20.

Yeah, not one of those.

I mean, it's funny because Sean Penn is probably the least likely to surface in a conversation that isn't among, you know, like our little circle.

You know, he just made weird choices.

He went back to directing these.

I mean, I don't think the movies were inherently strange, but I mean, commercially speaking, I mean, he was never really interested in the box office.

He was following his instincts.

And some of those movies were, were just, you know, that Dakota Johnson, um,

He does have this side of him that kind of wants it.

That's the only way you can... I don't know how else you explain I Am Sam, right?

A movie that we all agree it's okay to laugh at the execution of a thing that is also execrable as storytelling and filmmaking.

But I mean, it also, it said to me, because all these, all the great actors have that one performance where you're like,