Michael Barbaro

See you on Tuesday after the holiday.

We are living in interesting times, a turning point in history.

Are we entering a dark authoritarian era?

Or are we on the brink of a technological golden age or the apocalypse?

No one really knows, but I'm trying to find out.

From New York Times Opinion, I'm Ross Douthat.

And on my show, Interesting Times, I'm exploring this strange new world order with the thinkers and leaders giving it shape.

Follow it wherever you get your podcasts.

From The New York Times, I'm Michael Barbaro.

This is The Daily.

Just hours before a federal immigration officer killed Renee Good in her car, the Minneapolis police chief warned that a tragedy involving ICE and the people of his city seemed inevitable.

Today, I speak with that police chief, Brian O'Hara, about his experience with ICE in Minneapolis and why, in his mind, the president's campaign of mass deportation is undermining faith in police departments like his.

It's Monday, January 12th.

Chief O'Hara, thank you for making time for us on a Sunday, no less, and a very busy weekend for you.

The past 48 hours.

were pretty extraordinary from the perspective of an outsider.

There were these enormous protests.

I believe you yourself ended up in the middle of one of them.

I've tried to make sense of the video.

I mean, what has this been like for you?