Michael Barbaro

So in your mind, that's a flag, that you have this ICE agent, the one who ends up shooting Renee Good, standing in front of her car.

We're focusing here on the ICE officers.

I do want to ask you about the driver's decision-making in this moment.

Her refusal to get out of the car, even after ICE agents demand that she get out of the car.

Her reversing, then driving forward.

She appears to disobey spoken orders from these officers.

As somebody who thinks about this stuff, let's just ask this really plainly.

Was she in the wrong?

And did the ICE agent do any of that?

Do you feel that this would have ended differently had this been handled entirely by the MPD, not ICE?

No question.

Do you have any empathy for the ICE officer, given the split-second nature of policing, putting aside whether he should have ever been in front of the car?

You're referring to the fact that I believe this officer in the Times has written about it, was involved in a stop where he was dragged in a car.

I mean, you're basically raising questions about whether ICE agents are sufficiently trained to handle these kinds of encounters.

Let me turn to the investigation.

And I want to ask you about two issues that have arisen with this investigation.

The first, of course, is that the federal government has blocked local officials from participating in the investigation.

And they basically argue that because of comments made by your boss, Mayor Jacob Fry, that local officials can't be objective.

On the other hand, you've got the Trump administration out there basically saying –

You know, Rene Good is entirely at fault and the ICE officer did nothing wrong here.