Michael Barbaro

And at that point, Ross, you ask the vice president how it is he measures whether or not the administration's immigration policies are actually working. And Vance says that they've secured the border, but that when it comes to large-scale deportations, it's been more challenging. And he specifically points to two obstacles.

a lack of resources for enforcement, and then what he interprets as interference from the courts.

a lack of resources for enforcement, and then what he interprets as interference from the courts.

And here, Vance brings up his frustration, shared no doubt by the president, with the level of due process that immigrants in the country illegally are still entitled to.

And here, Vance brings up his frustration, shared no doubt by the president, with the level of due process that immigrants in the country illegally are still entitled to.

Ross, the vice president here seems to be arguing for a judiciary that is more responsive to the will of the people when it comes to immigration, which is not traditionally how we have seen the role of the courts. I mean, the whole point of having lifetime appointments — I'm not telling you anything you don't know — is that judges are insulated from public whims.

Ross, the vice president here seems to be arguing for a judiciary that is more responsive to the will of the people when it comes to immigration, which is not traditionally how we have seen the role of the courts. I mean, the whole point of having lifetime appointments — I'm not telling you anything you don't know — is that judges are insulated from public whims.

Their job is to interpret the Constitution, interpret longstanding precedent, regardless of what the public thinks. But you get the sense that what Vance really wants is for judges to get out of the way and get to a yes to the Trump administration, regardless of what previous interpretations of a law might be, because that's what he says the American voters want.

Their job is to interpret the Constitution, interpret longstanding precedent, regardless of what the public thinks. But you get the sense that what Vance really wants is for judges to get out of the way and get to a yes to the Trump administration, regardless of what previous interpretations of a law might be, because that's what he says the American voters want.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Okay, Ross, before the break, you told us that the administration's options for speeding up the pace of deportations is first, rewrite the law. Second, get the Supreme Court to reinterpret the law or to use a third option. So talk about what Vance says that third option is.

Okay, Ross, before the break, you told us that the administration's options for speeding up the pace of deportations is first, rewrite the law. Second, get the Supreme Court to reinterpret the law or to use a third option. So talk about what Vance says that third option is.

Ross, when the vice president refers to communities that are, in his characterization, riddled with crime from illegal immigrants, which communities do you think he's talking about?

Ross, when the vice president refers to communities that are, in his characterization, riddled with crime from illegal immigrants, which communities do you think he's talking about?

Right. The Maryland man in the United States illegally who was by the admission of the Trump administration mistakenly deported without due process to this prison in El Salvador.

Right. The Maryland man in the United States illegally who was by the admission of the Trump administration mistakenly deported without due process to this prison in El Salvador.

Listening to Vance here, I was struck by how much issue he takes with those who question this approach. And really, he takes issue with the fact that those who don't recognize the problem as he sees it don't really have much ground to stand on. in criticizing these edge cases, as he calls them.

Listening to Vance here, I was struck by how much issue he takes with those who question this approach. And really, he takes issue with the fact that those who don't recognize the problem as he sees it don't really have much ground to stand on. in criticizing these edge cases, as he calls them.

Basically, he seems to see left-leaning critics as unworthy of much engagement around this issue, which just struck me.