Michael Barbaro

You co-host a show, Popcast.

You were one of the journalists who helped winnow this wisdom of the crowd that Sasha mentioned down to the 30 best living American songwriters.

And most relevantly, for our purposes, you interviewed the queen.

Not Beyonce.

Tell me why Taylor Swift made the list.

And that's what puts her on the list of best living songwriters.

You're a student, right?

maybe even, dare I say, a scholar of Taylor Swift, and you've been studying her work for how long?

Where do you start this conversation with her about her songwriting process?

As you two are discussing the early phases of her career, she mentions a musical influence that I had not quite expected, emo.

Taylor is famous for her bridges in songwriting, and here I'm just going to confess, I don't think I've ever really understood what a bridge is, but I know you guys talked about it.

My favorite moment in the interview, in case you wondered, is when Taylor Swift describes to you how an entire song just starts to come to her.

And that has always felt like the divine in the songwriting process.

And she recounts a recent example of that.

I was struck, Joe, by how Taylor Swift thinks about her own reputation as a songwriter.

She's exceedingly sensitive.

And she tells you this to the idea that other people have written her songs.

I'm glad you brought this up.

She talks with really bracing frankness about the concept of criticism and about how she thinks you're supposed to best use it in songwriting and how you're not.

supposed to use it and the balancing act of that.