Michael Barbaro

But Trump pressed on with his inaccurate claims that South Africa allows black residents to take land from white farmers known as Afrikaners and even to kill them with impunity.

Today's episode was produced by Caitlin O'Keefe and Stella Tan. It was edited by Lisa Chow, contains original music by Dan Powell and Marian Lozano, and was engineered by Chris Wood and Pat McCusker. Our theme music is by Jim Brunberg and Ben Landsberg of Wonderly.

Today's episode was produced by Caitlin O'Keefe and Stella Tan. It was edited by Lisa Chow, contains original music by Dan Powell and Marian Lozano, and was engineered by Chris Wood and Pat McCusker. Our theme music is by Jim Brunberg and Ben Landsberg of Wonderly.

Special thanks to Annie Rose Strasser, Jordana Hochman, Catherine Sullivan, Andrea Batanzos, Sofia Alvarez-Boyd, Elissa Gutierrez, Kate Sinclair, Mary Marge Locker, Jonah Kessel, Marina King, and Shannon Busta. That's it for The Daily. I'm Michael Barbaro. See you tomorrow.

Special thanks to Annie Rose Strasser, Jordana Hochman, Catherine Sullivan, Andrea Batanzos, Sofia Alvarez-Boyd, Elissa Gutierrez, Kate Sinclair, Mary Marge Locker, Jonah Kessel, Marina King, and Shannon Busta. That's it for The Daily. I'm Michael Barbaro. See you tomorrow.

I don't think we have. Thanks for having me.

I don't think we have. Thanks for having me.

Yeah, well, in some ways, we are at a point that no one could have predicted back in February when Zelensky was essentially thrown out of the White House by Trump. And, you know, it looked like Ukraine was cooked. Trump was very angry at Zelensky and very eager, by all indications, to please Russian President Vladimir Putin.

Yeah, well, in some ways, we are at a point that no one could have predicted back in February when Zelensky was essentially thrown out of the White House by Trump. And, you know, it looked like Ukraine was cooked. Trump was very angry at Zelensky and very eager, by all indications, to please Russian President Vladimir Putin.

But in the weeks since then, the story has become a little more complicated. There's some tension in the relationship between Trump and Putin that we've not seen before. Ukraine is certainly not out of the woods yet.

But in the weeks since then, the story has become a little more complicated. There's some tension in the relationship between Trump and Putin that we've not seen before. Ukraine is certainly not out of the woods yet.

But the path to this phone call was much more winding and filled with surprises, I think, than anyone would have expected on that day when Trump essentially berated the president of Ukraine and acted as though he was finished doing business with him.

But the path to this phone call was much more winding and filled with surprises, I think, than anyone would have expected on that day when Trump essentially berated the president of Ukraine and acted as though he was finished doing business with him.

Well, Ukrainians and their supporters in Europe and the United States were basically panicking after that meeting. You know, Trump declared that Ukraine was not ready for a peace deal, a deal he promised as a candidate that he could strike in as little as one day, and suspended U.S. military aid and intelligence sharing with Ukraine. His attitude was...

Well, Ukrainians and their supporters in Europe and the United States were basically panicking after that meeting. You know, Trump declared that Ukraine was not ready for a peace deal, a deal he promised as a candidate that he could strike in as little as one day, and suspended U.S. military aid and intelligence sharing with Ukraine. His attitude was...

You, Zelensky, are not showing enough respect to the United States and not willing enough to cut a deal. And we're done with you. Good day and good luck.

You, Zelensky, are not showing enough respect to the United States and not willing enough to cut a deal. And we're done with you. Good day and good luck.

And, you know, what was happening was not only was Trump castigating Zelensky and to many people blaming the victim of this Russian invasion, but accelerating his diplomacy with Moscow and talking about, you know, economic deals and potentially lifting sanctions and restoring normal diplomatic relations. and seeming to get very excited about this prospect that America and Russia would be friends.

And, you know, what was happening was not only was Trump castigating Zelensky and to many people blaming the victim of this Russian invasion, but accelerating his diplomacy with Moscow and talking about, you know, economic deals and potentially lifting sanctions and restoring normal diplomatic relations. and seeming to get very excited about this prospect that America and Russia would be friends.

You know, I think a couple of things happened. Number one, I think the Ukrainians changed their tone. Zelensky was much more careful about what he said about the U.S. and the Trump administration in public. At the same time, behind the scenes, you had some European leaders acting differently