Michael Barbaro

And Lisa, you've actually listened, I believe, to the entire five hours of this recording. And I'm curious what your experience of it was.

That's fascinating.

That's fascinating.

I want to just talk about how the Herr saga ends because I think it speaks to what you're all suggesting. Robert Herr finishes this interview and then writes a report in which he says, I believe that charges against Biden for the way he handled classified documents are in order, but that a jury wouldn't ever be willing to convict him because he seems like someone who's Not entirely with it.

I want to just talk about how the Herr saga ends because I think it speaks to what you're all suggesting. Robert Herr finishes this interview and then writes a report in which he says, I believe that charges against Biden for the way he handled classified documents are in order, but that a jury wouldn't ever be willing to convict him because he seems like someone who's Not entirely with it.

I mean, that was the essence of what he concluded. And after that report came out, those around Biden attacked her. They said, you are a partisan. Some suggested he was basically a hack, that he bore ill will towards Biden.

I mean, that was the essence of what he concluded. And after that report came out, those around Biden attacked her. They said, you are a partisan. Some suggested he was basically a hack, that he bore ill will towards Biden.

And today, all these months later, it seems like that could in theory be part of an effort to hide something, to attack the messenger rather than grapple with the realities of what was happening in that room. But I hear you all saying that those who were doing that attacking against her might have believed that. that this was normal for Biden and that there was sort of nothing to see here.

And today, all these months later, it seems like that could in theory be part of an effort to hide something, to attack the messenger rather than grapple with the realities of what was happening in that room. But I hear you all saying that those who were doing that attacking against her might have believed that. that this was normal for Biden and that there was sort of nothing to see here.

Is that what I hear you saying? Or should we think of what those allies of Biden attempted to do to her as something approaching an effort at a cover-up?

Is that what I hear you saying? Or should we think of what those allies of Biden attempted to do to her as something approaching an effort at a cover-up?

But that's a reality they had created with the pretty stingy way in which they parceled him out to the public.

But that's a reality they had created with the pretty stingy way in which they parceled him out to the public.

And of course, this is the conversation, including and especially in the last couple of days about this audio that has been made public of that interview that precedes the news that Biden has cancer. And I'm curious, what is the reaction from Democrats given this larger context that we've been discussing?

And of course, this is the conversation, including and especially in the last couple of days about this audio that has been made public of that interview that precedes the news that Biden has cancer. And I'm curious, what is the reaction from Democrats given this larger context that we've been discussing?

The PSA. Just to make clear what you're saying, he did not have the traditional PSA test earlier that might have caught this.

The PSA. Just to make clear what you're saying, he did not have the traditional PSA test earlier that might have caught this.

You're suggesting, Lisa, that there are people who worked on the 2024 campaign who are wondering when did he learn he had cancer and was it earlier than perhaps he said? We should say we have no evidence that he learned this any earlier than just a couple days ago. Yeah, that's exactly right. So do the three of you think that Biden having this diagnosis...

You're suggesting, Lisa, that there are people who worked on the 2024 campaign who are wondering when did he learn he had cancer and was it earlier than perhaps he said? We should say we have no evidence that he learned this any earlier than just a couple days ago. Yeah, that's exactly right. So do the three of you think that Biden having this diagnosis...

now makes it harder, perhaps even impossible, for the party, which is having all these trust issues and was in the middle of reexamining it very openly, to continue to have that candid or increasingly candid conversation about what happened here and what went wrong and how to make sure it never happens again within the Democratic Party.