Michael Barbaro

It is really nice to see you. It's so nice to see you, too. I want to jump in, and I want to have you tell the story of how it is you became so interested in the subject of siblings.

Oh my God, what are you thinking when that question comes across the table? I loved it.

Oh my God, what are you thinking when that question comes across the table? I loved it.

Is it safe to say that was not the dinner table dynamic at your house?

Is it safe to say that was not the dinner table dynamic at your house?

So tell us what you end up concluding about the sibling effect from your book, The Family Dynamic, which ends up very much being a study of the dynamics of siblings.

So tell us what you end up concluding about the sibling effect from your book, The Family Dynamic, which ends up very much being a study of the dynamics of siblings.

I wonder if you can illustrate how it actually works that siblings influence the direction of that arrow.

I wonder if you can illustrate how it actually works that siblings influence the direction of that arrow.

Okay, and what do you find from the Groffs?

Okay, and what do you find from the Groffs?

And then what do you come to understand about how, and this seems important, consciously or unconsciously, the Groff siblings... exerted a differentiating force on each other? Because that seems like it would be not something you would necessarily ever consciously intend to do.

And then what do you come to understand about how, and this seems important, consciously or unconsciously, the Groff siblings... exerted a differentiating force on each other? Because that seems like it would be not something you would necessarily ever consciously intend to do.

Just explain that because everyone listening is going to want to understand why that is.

Just explain that because everyone listening is going to want to understand why that is.

And they have more of that attention.

And they have more of that attention.

That's fascinating. And clearly that seems to be what happened with the youngest of the Groff siblings. What about the middle Groff child? What was her experience, Lauren?

That's fascinating. And clearly that seems to be what happened with the youngest of the Groff siblings. What about the middle Groff child? What was her experience, Lauren?

So what's important about the graphs, it would seem, is that you have this academically strong and much more than he would seem to know emotionally towering figure. And the two younger siblings respond in these complicated ways that it sounds like they're conscious of. They seem to know it's happening. And as a result, they end up in very high achieving but extremely different lines of work.