Michael Barbaro

And I want to talk about how, given your background, you got to that point.

So tell us that story.

Where does it begin over the past year or so?

Right.

You didn't see an outcome where the core issue of health care costs was going to be addressed.

You're saying that even though you didn't support that last shutdown, you ended up seeing the value of it in sending a message.

So let me get to this next shutdown, which you are supporting.

Tell me how you decided and kind of when you decided that there was a problem with immigration enforcement as it was being practiced by the Department of Homeland Security and

Because this all started, of course, with President Trump's second term a little over a year ago.

And I wonder if you could just take me on the journey you went through.

Wow.

So you're both in law enforcement.

So you become unsettled just from recognizing that there's a sudden hiring binge and that the standards are changing and that the training in your mind is insufficient.

This is back many months ago.

So that's your first set of concerns, right?

How do those evolve over time?

Wait, I just want to slow down and understand this.

You...

found evidence that immigration enforcement agents were pursuing the families of local law enforcement?

Correct.