Michael Easter

We don't care where you hear it.

All right, now we're going to bring on Jay Carson.

For most of his career, he was a high-level political operator.

He was the communications director for President Clinton.

Then he started screenwriting.

He worked on House of Cards and also The Morning Show.

And then during COVID...

The power went out, and he realized that he had no idea what to do in the event of a big emergency.

He was not self-reliant at all.

And so he took an extreme wilderness course, and it totally changed his life and taught him new ways of living in the world, acting in the world, and how to be self-reliant.

All right, Jay, welcome to the show.

Thanks, Michael.

It's so good to be here.

All right, so for people who don't know you yet, I think we need to set this up.

So you spent about and are still spending 25 years in some of these super optimized high pressure environments.

And then in 2021, you sign up for this 14 day survival course in the Utah desert.

And now you are an instructor at the school.

So give us the short version of how you got from that world to being like, I need to go out in the desert and trying to survive for 14 days.

I was like, what's the only thing harder than politics or Hollywood?

No, I really... I think... Yeah, I went from probably the second worst business in America to the worst business in America, from politics to Hollywood.