Michael Leonard

But oftentimes people will take it to federal court, which gives them a better shake.

So I'm curious as to whether they ever took it to federal court.

Which, at least in theory, the idea is that it's, you know, hopefully a venue that's uninfluenced by state concerns and maybe a little less biased, maybe a little bit more professional, maybe better quality judges in theory.

So I would just wonder if he ever took it the federal route.

Maybe that would have been his potentially better hand.

I don't know.

So it sounds like from what you're describing that they are in the federal appellate court out in California because what happens in our system

is if you get to the appeal level in federal court and typically in state court, then you argue your case, oral argue and panel of three judges.

And, you know, the fun and exciting and scary part of that

is they can ask you whatever they want, whenever they want, right?

So you're given a certain allocation of time, might be as little as 10 minutes, as much as 30.

And those judges can pepper you through any question they want at any time, interrupt you, take over or whatever.

So it's kind of a fun experience to go through.

It's a little nerve wracking, but that sounds great because, you know, any court from an appellate standpoint, looking at this objectively says,

would have grave concerns.

And the great thing about this

And it's a two-sided coin here.

The great thing is if they reverse this thing, if they vacate the conviction, there's no way he's going to be retried.

But the sad part is he spent all this time incarcerated.

He ain't getting that time back, right?