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Chapter 1: What led to Evaristo Salas Jr.'s wrongful conviction?
Every issue that leads to a wrongful conviction is present in this case.
Hello and welcome back to One Minute Remaining. My name is Jack Lawrence, the host and creator of this show. We just wrapped up the incredible story of Evaristo Salas Jr., the man now in his 40s convicted of murder at just 15, a crime he has always maintained he's innocent of. Of course, if you are yet to hear this story, time to hit that pause button, head on back and catch up.
As I'm sure you're aware, I am in no way an expert when it comes to the law in any country, let alone one I don't live in. I am merely a man producing a show from his children's toy room, which is why after each one of these cases, we sit down and discuss them with the man they call the voice of reason.
Michael Leonard is a defence attorney with decades of trial experience and a practising defence attorney from Leonard Trial Lawyers in Chicago, Illinois. So it's time to get Michael's opinion on the case of Evaristo Salas Jr. Here he is.
Hey, Jack.
How are you, sir?
Well, I need to talk to you about something. I think, you know, we'd have a discussion about your physical conditioning, you know, because you ran that one point two miles or so. You seem pretty out of breath, my friend. So maybe one of your patrons can suggest a sprint program or something for you.
Yeah.
Come on now, mate. Come on. I'm putting my body on the line for this show. You're just lucky I don't say, right, your turn now, Mr. Leonard. You're the attorney. I want to see what you would do for your client.
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Chapter 2: How does eyewitness testimony impact wrongful convictions?
Didn't even mention it. Didn't even hear about it. Didn't know nothing about it. That she went in there and cleaned the truck out and all that kind of stuff. That came later. And so it's like, had the jury heard that, that would have made a difference. Because then it would have been like, well, she did all these things. She was a suspect. And then she lied.
Even said right there that she's lying. She's making stories, all these kind of things. Then the image of her just being this, you know, the victim and everything. And just, you know, seeing things. That would have changed. Because now... you have her doing these things that don't make sense for a person to do.
And this was Such a close case to begin with. It sounded like the jury struggled mightily. And of course, if they knew any of these things, it would have had a huge impact on their deliberations, which, again, points to the fact that when you appeal a case or ask a court to revisit it based upon newly discovered evidence. That's what they want to hear.
They want to hear, is it possible or is it probable or is it likely that if the jury had known about this evidence, it could have materially impacted their decision? In this case, of course, that fact alone could have materially impacted the jury's decision. It would have. bombed her credibility, particularly on top of hypnosis. She would have absolutely no credibility.
Two of the jury members who have been interviewed post this conviction and have obviously found out this information, both of them have said that this would have completely changed their opinion. And they've said it took seven attempts to come to a final decision. on guilty or not guilty.
Seven attempts for them to all come to the same realisation and one of the jurors said that he initially voted not guilty but he said eventually he came back to her testimony and he just looked at her, obviously it's this now widow who's got a child that she's going to have to raise by herself and looked at her and said, you know what, she was so adamant, so adamant about this, it was this young man that committed it and that's basically the only thing that really...
swayed him the other way if the hypnosis issue had been even disclosed to the court okay she probably doesn't even testify so think of the gargantuan effect that would have had oh huge but you know the second issue which is strange though when a reviewing court is considering you know whether They could have changed the outcome.
They're not even, they wouldn't even allow juror testimony like that, but it's just a reasonable standard, right? You know, what would reasonably expected to influence or affect the outcome of case. And there's no doubt either of those facts would have the hypnosis and then the identification. the absconding with the truck and wiping away the evidence.
I mean, it's like one of those cases you just don't know where to begin, and it's so sad. You said it yourself in one of the episodes. If it wasn't so sad, it'd be laughable, because it really is. I mean, you couldn't create a case with more holes If you fed this to a bunch of law students and had them dissect it, it would be kind of a hallmark of every problem we have in our system.
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Chapter 3: What role does hypnosis play in witness reliability?
But It's just a great story.
Actually, it's amazing, actually. You say Hamish is from New Zealand. There's a very, very good podcast called Who the Hell is Hamish? about a guy from New Zealand who was a scam artist who called himself Hamish. So just be careful, Mr. Leonard.
Did he relocate to River Forest, Illinois?
I don't know. Possibly. I mean, he did disappear.
Jack, we're spawning so many new podcasts. We better stop.
Yes. Well, I mean, those Kiwis, mate. Watch them. Watch them.
He's going to be tuned into your next show.
Oh, good, good. I appreciate it, man. I need all the listeners I can get. So spread the word. Look, as always, Mr. Leonard, I truly appreciate your time and insights on this particular case. And look, I would like to say that I'll bring you one that you can disagree with me on, but that's not the plan. The plan is from here on forward is to...
Yeah, you're doing a great job. And I would just recommend maybe a two-mile run a couple of times a week.
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