Michael Levin

When I say nothing but science, I also include the kind of first person, what I call science, that you do.

So the interesting thing about, I think, about consciousness and studying consciousness and things like that in the first person is, unlike doing science in the third person, where you as the scientist are minimally changed by it, maybe not at all.

So when I do an experiment, I'm still me.

There's the experiment.

Whatever I've done, I've learned something.

So that's a small change.

But overall, that's it.

In order to really study consciousness...

you will, you are part of the experiment.

You will be altered by that experiment, right?

And whatever, whatever it is that you're doing, whether it's, you know, some sort of contemplative practice or, or, or some sort of, you know, psychoactive, you know, whatever, you are now, you are now your own experiment and you are right.

And so, so I consider, I fold that in.

I think that's, that's part of it.

I think that exploring our own mind and our own consciousness is very important.

I think much of it is not captured by what currently is third person science for sure.

But ultimately, I include all of that in science with a capital S in terms of like a rational investigation of both first and third person aspects of our world.

Oh, thanks so much.

Likewise.

Really appreciate being here.

Thank you.