Michael Levin

It's a very low level of intelligence.

Fine.

Right.

Done.

So that's really all I'm arguing for is an empirical approach.

And then things like anthropomorphism go away.

It's just a matter of have you done the experiment and what did you find?

You can try.

Yeah.

We've used everything from...

basic habituation conditioning all the way through anxiolytics, hallucinogens, all kinds of cognitive modification on the range of things that you wouldn't believe.

And by the way, I'm not the first person to come up with this.

So there was a guy named Bose well over 100 years ago who was studying how anesthesia affected animals and animal cells and drawing specific curves around electrical excitability.

And he then went and did it with plants and saw some very similar phenomena.

And being the genius that he was, he then said, well, I don't know when to stop, but there's no, you know, everybody thinks we should have stopped long before plants because people made fun of him for that.

And he's like, yeah, but the science doesn't tell us where to stop.

The tool is working.

Let's keep going.

And he showed interesting phenomena on materials, metals and other kinds of materials, right?

And so the interesting thing is that