Michael Levin

Now he was focused on, on mathematical ones, but, but he was embodying them in music and in geometry and then things like that.

There are the, the space of patterns and, uh,

And they make a difference in the physical world to machines, to sound, to things like that.

What I'm extending it.

And what I'm saying is, yeah.

And so far we've only been looking at the low agency inhabitants of that world.

There are other patterns that we would recognize as kinds of minds and that

you don't see them in this space until there's an interface, until there's a way for them to come through the physical world.

That interface, the same way that you have to make a triangular object before you can actually see what you're gonna gain out of the rules of geometry and whatever, or you have to actually do the computation on the fractal before you actually see that pattern.

If you wanna see some of those minds, you have to build an interface, right?

At least if you're gonna interact with them in the physical world, the way we normally do science.

As Darwin said, mathematicians have their own new sense, like a different sense than the rest of us.

And so that's right.

You know, mathematicians can perhaps interact with these with these patterns directly in that space.

But for the rest of us, we have to make interfaces.

And when we make interfaces, which might be cells or robots or embryos or whatever.

What we are pulling down are minds that are fundamentally not produced by physics.

So I don't believe that.

I don't know if we're going to get into the whole consciousness thing.

But I don't believe that we create consciousness, whether we make babies or whether we make robots.