Michael McFaul

Well, this was supposed to be a good day. You know, they negotiated very hard, both sides, on this minerals deal. I'm not a big fan of it, but both sides thought it was in their interest. They thought that getting a direct meeting with the president was what Zelensky needed, because that's what everybody says. You got to do business with President Trump directly.

Well, this was supposed to be a good day. You know, they negotiated very hard, both sides, on this minerals deal. I'm not a big fan of it, but both sides thought it was in their interest. They thought that getting a direct meeting with the president was what Zelensky needed, because that's what everybody says. You got to do business with President Trump directly.

And so it was their idea to fly to Washington to have this meeting and And they're just in shock. The whole country is in shock. By the way, the whole country is rallying to President Zelensky's support, just like the rest of Europe is as well. But they did not expect this. And I got to tell you, honestly, this is my opinion, not theirs.

And so it was their idea to fly to Washington to have this meeting and And they're just in shock. The whole country is in shock. By the way, the whole country is rallying to President Zelensky's support, just like the rest of Europe is as well. But they did not expect this. And I got to tell you, honestly, this is my opinion, not theirs.

But we keep talking about Trump wants to do a deal to end the war. I'm not so sure that's true. I think he wants to do a deal with Putin. That's the real play, as you were just describing. And the Ukraine thing is kind of a sideshow. And if it works out, it works out.

But we keep talking about Trump wants to do a deal to end the war. I'm not so sure that's true. I think he wants to do a deal with Putin. That's the real play, as you were just describing. And the Ukraine thing is kind of a sideshow. And if it works out, it works out.

If it doesn't, Trump doesn't really care because there's no other way to explain all of the concessions that he has already given to Vladimir Putin, even before any negotiation. So that suggests to me that, in fact, he actually is not trying to negotiate a deal. He's trying to nurture a relationship with Vladimir Putin. And as you said, I hope the American people understand this is wrong.

If it doesn't, Trump doesn't really care because there's no other way to explain all of the concessions that he has already given to Vladimir Putin, even before any negotiation. So that suggests to me that, in fact, he actually is not trying to negotiate a deal. He's trying to nurture a relationship with Vladimir Putin. And as you said, I hope the American people understand this is wrong.

It's not in our national interest. And I think Trump is way out ahead of the people as you're polling that you just showed, just described.

It's not in our national interest. And I think Trump is way out ahead of the people as you're polling that you just showed, just described.

Well, I want to keep hope alive. President Trump and his team don't seem to want to be part of the free world. But I'm an American, too. I want to be part of the free world. I hope there are other Americans who believe the same as me. And I don't want them to turn this this way because I don't believe it serves America's interests.

Well, I want to keep hope alive. President Trump and his team don't seem to want to be part of the free world. But I'm an American, too. I want to be part of the free world. I hope there are other Americans who believe the same as me. And I don't want them to turn this this way because I don't believe it serves America's interests.

And by the way, there's a lot of Americans like me who think we're more than just mineral deals. We stand for more of that. So it is the fight is still on. But to your point, yes, the center of gravity has moved to Europe. I was at the Munich Security Conference. Actually, we talked at four in the morning there. I now remember. And the mood then was, well, we've got to pick this up.

And by the way, there's a lot of Americans like me who think we're more than just mineral deals. We stand for more of that. So it is the fight is still on. But to your point, yes, the center of gravity has moved to Europe. I was at the Munich Security Conference. Actually, we talked at four in the morning there. I now remember. And the mood then was, well, we've got to pick this up.

We've got to unite. We've got to stand behind the democratically elected leader of Ukraine against this imperialist dictator that has invaded his country. And tragically, for now, that's where the center of gravity for the free world is.

We've got to unite. We've got to stand behind the democratically elected leader of Ukraine against this imperialist dictator that has invaded his country. And tragically, for now, that's where the center of gravity for the free world is.

Can't imagine being anywhere else. Thanks for having me, Rachel.

Can't imagine being anywhere else. Thanks for having me, Rachel.

Always a pleasure to be on with you, Rachel.

Always a pleasure to be on with you, Rachel.