Mike Baker

And people always like to ascribe very nefarious reasons to it.

And sometimes there are, again, it's not a perfect system.

It's human based.

So,

But there does tend to be this desire and part of that is this mirroring process, right?

And I think this is, I'm bringing this around to the Middle East and into the problems we're having out there is that we tend to mirror our values on other cultures, other societies.

And no place is more difficult for that to happen than in the Middle East where, you know, we've seen time and time again in Afghanistan, in Iraq, with Iran, wherever it may be, we

We throw our own values onto a culture and think, well, this is how they'll process this.

This is how they'll react.

This is what they'll want, because that's what we want.

And it doesn't work.

But David, as always, this has been a, and I'm going to use the word delightful, a delightful conversation.

Likewise.

And it is, man.

So listen, there's a lot more to discuss, but we very much appreciate your insight, your analysis on this.

And I can guarantee you that we will be calling you back here very shortly to continue this conversation.

Whenever you need me, I'm here.

Excellent.

Thanks so much, Matt.

David Dowd of the Foundation for Defensive Democracy.