Mike C-Roc
Appearances
Escaping the Drift with John Gafford
From Chaos to Podcast Success: Mike C-Roc's Journey of Transformation and Innovation
We first started, I would work with anybody just to see what you could do, right? Because you have to. And then very, very slowly it started to evolve into a situation where we became exclusive. Yeah. I don't just work with anybody. Not at all. And if we get somebody that pays us and we find out that they're not aligned, we just give them their money back and move on.
Escaping the Drift with John Gafford
From Chaos to Podcast Success: Mike C-Roc's Journey of Transformation and Innovation
i started to realize like i'm around the wrong people yeah like this is not what i want to do and so hit me when i hit 40 instead of chasing women and uh and getting a sports car it hit me i was like i got to make a change and i just said i can't do this anymore and so i started a wind down process and then created an exit strategy and uh yeah that's where that's where it started but but you know it was did you know what you wanted to do next or did you just you was like i don't know what i'm gonna do but i'm not doing this yeah exactly
Escaping the Drift with John Gafford
From Chaos to Podcast Success: Mike C-Roc's Journey of Transformation and Innovation
I felt at first, the first thought, it's like, what can I do? Not having a college degree. You know, this is back in 2018. Not having a college degree. I had just lost a million dollars. My partner and I, I mean, we got stripped behind the scenes on some margins.
Escaping the Drift with John Gafford
From Chaos to Podcast Success: Mike C-Roc's Journey of Transformation and Innovation
I had a big face in my mouth, and I was just like, man, like...
Escaping the Drift with John Gafford
From Chaos to Podcast Success: Mike C-Roc's Journey of Transformation and Innovation
am i gonna do and i just felt like uh i felt boxed in i didn't like that feeling yeah so eventually i just said you know what i gotta start i gotta start doing something else man i don't know what it is and so i started praying and um i pray all the time now man like i'm an unapologetic believer in god man like he's you know when i was going through those dark times in college and party and all that i felt so alone times there could be people all around me i just felt like alone and now i don't
Escaping the Drift with John Gafford
From Chaos to Podcast Success: Mike C-Roc's Journey of Transformation and Innovation
ever yeah and and so i pray all the time while i was praying and i was just like please show me away man like show me there's got to be something and the thing that came to me was you got to get known and i was like okay well i think i'm already known i'm like i've been on covers magazines locally regionally done news and all that stuff and and i said no globally man like globally and i was like i don't care about ego though i'm not an ego but i don't care about that that's what i thought about getting known you have to it's it's all about ego
Escaping the Drift with John Gafford
From Chaos to Podcast Success: Mike C-Roc's Journey of Transformation and Innovation
can be but that's not the right route to travel i was thinking more along the lines once i started thinking more about impact yeah if you get known you're going to create more impact and so well i think i committed to getting known globally real quick i think that's that's something that
Escaping the Drift with John Gafford
From Chaos to Podcast Success: Mike C-Roc's Journey of Transformation and Innovation
Yeah, well, I talk about that a lot to people. I'll say, you know, you've got to become a celebrity in your space. You've got to become the brand, that one. That's where that one came from. And you'll hear people say, I don't really care about being a celebrity. I just want to make some money. No, you're not getting it. I don't care about my ego. It's not about that. It's about impact.
Escaping the Drift with John Gafford
From Chaos to Podcast Success: Mike C-Roc's Journey of Transformation and Innovation
The more you get known, if you're getting known globally, you're going to knock out your local market, no problem. If you're in real estate, if I was going to be in right now, coming to Vegas and getting into real estate, I would be like, I'm the king of real estate in Vegas. I would start saying that.
Escaping the Drift with John Gafford
From Chaos to Podcast Success: Mike C-Roc's Journey of Transformation and Innovation
Yeah. Because you got to be it, like just be it. And then all of a sudden your attention starts focusing on all the ways that you're going to be the king of Vegas real estate. Now you might hear that and me saying that on social media, yeah, this guy, where the hell did he come from? It doesn't matter what you think. It doesn't matter what the number one, number two, doesn't matter.
Escaping the Drift with John Gafford
From Chaos to Podcast Success: Mike C-Roc's Journey of Transformation and Innovation
All that matters is what you think in your head and what you keep saying every day. You start taking these actions and before you know it, You got billboards all around where C-Rock's the king of real estate in Vegas. Here's the king of real estate. Even before the numbers prove it. And that's how you become known and successful. But again, it's not about ego.
Escaping the Drift with John Gafford
From Chaos to Podcast Success: Mike C-Roc's Journey of Transformation and Innovation
It's just the portrayal of that celebrity. So I started realizing, like, I got to become a celebrity in my space, get known globally. And I started going on podcasts, man. And that changed everything. I didn't even know. Here's the thing. A guy invited me on a podcast, 2019. He asked me three times. I said, no, no. And the third time he said, why? And I'm like, dude, I don't have an iPod.
Escaping the Drift with John Gafford
From Chaos to Podcast Success: Mike C-Roc's Journey of Transformation and Innovation
He's like, what are you talking about? I'm like, I don't know. I guess I don't know what I'm talking about. I didn't know. And so as stupid as that sounds, especially for what we do now, he said, no, man, just come on the show. I'll interview you. So I, he said, I respect your leadership and abilities and your entrepreneurial, all that stuff. I said, all right, come on.
Escaping the Drift with John Gafford
From Chaos to Podcast Success: Mike C-Roc's Journey of Transformation and Innovation
So I was being interviewed and I noticed this feeling while I was being interviewed. You've had to feel it before as a guest before. I was like, shit, this is awesome. Somebody's showing interest in you. This isn't going to go out to people. They care about what you think and what you say. I was just like, this is amazing. I said, if I can bottle this, I'll be unstoppable.
Escaping the Drift with John Gafford
From Chaos to Podcast Success: Mike C-Roc's Journey of Transformation and Innovation
So I got off that podcast. I called my assistant Kim at the time. I'm in the mortgage business. I said, Kim, clear the schedule. At this point, I was working maybe two hours a week in the mortgage business because we had to systematize. And I said, I got to be on podcasts every day. We just got to do this. And she's like, okay, but how? I don't know. Yeah. Like the how doesn't matter.
Escaping the Drift with John Gafford
From Chaos to Podcast Success: Mike C-Roc's Journey of Transformation and Innovation
We're just going to do it. Commitment first. Commitment first. Not how first. Commitment first. The how shows up. It always does. But nobody commits. They always want the how. But more importantly, the who shows up. Well, that's part of the how, right? Yeah. Who not how. Yeah, I heard that before. But the who is part of the how. Yeah. Right? So. But you're the who. So that's why I'm saying that.
Escaping the Drift with John Gafford
From Chaos to Podcast Success: Mike C-Roc's Journey of Transformation and Innovation
Well, here's the thing. Yeah, yeah. I'm the who. That's right. You're the who now. That's what I'm saying. I can get you on podcast. But here's the thing, man. Like when you. Like when you start committing to something, stuff starts to appear around you that has always been there. I started seeing friends that had podcasts. I had no idea they had podcasts, but they were my friends.
Escaping the Drift with John Gafford
From Chaos to Podcast Success: Mike C-Roc's Journey of Transformation and Innovation
How did I not know that? I wasn't paying attention to it. I started seeing all these opportunities. I started going on all their shows.
Escaping the Drift with John Gafford
From Chaos to Podcast Success: Mike C-Roc's Journey of Transformation and Innovation
seven to ten a week i've been on over 1100 as a guest in the last five years from doing this better shows kept coming bigger stages kept coming networking like massive network expansion and so i just leaned into it and before you knew it then the how came for the next step in my life which is wow i have a system here i documented this process of getting on podcasts and what you how to leverage every aspect of it and uh
Escaping the Drift with John Gafford
From Chaos to Podcast Success: Mike C-Roc's Journey of Transformation and Innovation
I got to help other people do this now. So we created that one to help people become that one in their industry through guesting on podcasts and leveraging every aspect of it with some things that I figured out that nobody's still doing. Still not doing. Like what? Like what?
Escaping the Drift with John Gafford
From Chaos to Podcast Success: Mike C-Roc's Journey of Transformation and Innovation
So first of all, obviously before Reels and TikToks came out, I was repurposing everything into clips and then posting it everywhere, becoming omnipresent. But the key factor is, is that...
Escaping the Drift with John Gafford
From Chaos to Podcast Success: Mike C-Roc's Journey of Transformation and Innovation
When people see you being interviewed by multiple people, not just having to show yourself for just once in a while, your credibility and authority perception-wise from the people that are watching it goes through the roof.
Escaping the Drift with John Gafford
From Chaos to Podcast Success: Mike C-Roc's Journey of Transformation and Innovation
beyond what you even actually feel about yourself so you become like this it's wild because when i started doing this i would go to events and people would want to take selfies with me and and my family would be with me and they'd be like what is this this is crazy like why do they want to take a picture with you we don't even want to take a picture with you um just weird stuff even people are like you know even earlier they're like i i know that that guy's somebody but i don't know who it is but i'm gonna get a picture of you
Escaping the Drift with John Gafford
From Chaos to Podcast Success: Mike C-Roc's Journey of Transformation and Innovation
But see, I was good at branding my like my last name. If I said Sirocco, it wouldn't work. Yeah. So I branded C-Rock. Yep. And then it made recognition really easy. So people started coming up to me all the time and I was like, there's something here. And I didn't let it get to my ego. I just realized that I have something that I can document and build for other people.
Escaping the Drift with John Gafford
From Chaos to Podcast Success: Mike C-Roc's Journey of Transformation and Innovation
And so when we started doing this now, so repurposing contents one. Number two, this is the most powerful thing ever. Every show I would go on. Within a week or two, I would get on a 15-minute call with the host. And I would set it up while I was still here. And I would show interest in the host on that call. It wasn't about me at all.
Escaping the Drift with John Gafford
From Chaos to Podcast Success: Mike C-Roc's Journey of Transformation and Innovation
It was all about, hey, what are you working on right now that's got you excited? What's the vision that you have going forward? Challenges are you dealing with right now? And I would ask these questions and actively listen. And then it would allow me to help them, connect them with someone, make a suggestion, whatever.
Escaping the Drift with John Gafford
From Chaos to Podcast Success: Mike C-Roc's Journey of Transformation and Innovation
And it expanded the network drastically because people would give the shirt off their back if you showed interest in them. Nobody does that.
Escaping the Drift with John Gafford
From Chaos to Podcast Success: Mike C-Roc's Journey of Transformation and Innovation
He's great at it. Love it. Now, here's the other thing. So not just podcasts. Then I carried this over, and I was like, you know what? I call these 15 minis, these calls. 15 minis work across the board. So I was like, if it works with podcast hosts, I'm going to start reaching out to people on Instagram. And I call them perfect strangers.
Escaping the Drift with John Gafford
From Chaos to Podcast Success: Mike C-Roc's Journey of Transformation and Innovation
I mean, talk to me about... I grew up outside of Philly, and... In the mushroom country, it's where most mushrooms grow. And I'm talking about the food mushrooms.
Escaping the Drift with John Gafford
From Chaos to Podcast Success: Mike C-Roc's Journey of Transformation and Innovation
So I set up a system through Instagram where I can scrape Instagram for the target audience. I send out 50 to 60 messages a day. you know, letting them know that, man, their content's great. I appreciate their content and I'd love to connect more. And then they respond and I lead them to 15 minis and I have calls.
Escaping the Drift with John Gafford
From Chaos to Podcast Success: Mike C-Roc's Journey of Transformation and Innovation
I have like three to five a day in between podcasts and business meetings with total strangers. And I asked them that, what are you working on right now that's got you excited? What's the vision for the future? And they either come, they need to get on podcasts. They need help with their Instagram growth and strategy. They need help with
Escaping the Drift with John Gafford
From Chaos to Podcast Success: Mike C-Roc's Journey of Transformation and Innovation
then there's also platforms like like instagram with if you do some of these reach out things and they're automated too much it'll shut your account down so i can't risk that yeah so we still have a lot of manual involvement but it's still automated um but it works man i mean and then we've also done linkedin we have a way on linkedin right now where you can create 500 unique accounts unique ip addresses and then ai creates these accounts for you and then we can send up to 15 000 messages a month
Escaping the Drift with John Gafford
From Chaos to Podcast Success: Mike C-Roc's Journey of Transformation and Innovation
Nowadays, you got to differentiate, specify. But it was the food mushrooms. And it smells like shit there. And just like a horrible smell when you walk through there because of the manure and fertilizer. But I grew up there in an Italian family and eventually made my way down to Maryland to go to college and play football. What did mom and dad do? My dad was a Mason. He had his own business. Okay.
Escaping the Drift with John Gafford
From Chaos to Podcast Success: Mike C-Roc's Journey of Transformation and Innovation
a targeted audience so but my whole email through linkedin yeah listen i i i want to connect with people to help them yeah that's dope my business that one is just a a tool that we take on the mission and i just want to help so many people and lean into that that's why dan's good too he cares about people yeah wants to help people yeah and it's not all about the dollar the dollar follows
Escaping the Drift with John Gafford
From Chaos to Podcast Success: Mike C-Roc's Journey of Transformation and Innovation
And so when I switched my mind frame up about just wanting to help people, waking up every day, obsessed with helping people, whether it's a connection or strategy or whatever, it's changed everything, man. It's made life so much easier.
Escaping the Drift with John Gafford
From Chaos to Podcast Success: Mike C-Roc's Journey of Transformation and Innovation
So I started my podcast after I've been on probably 100 shows as a guest. I've had 900, close to 1,000 episodes of that show now. But so I had that going, I was still guesting. And then I just winded the mortgage thing down. And I, while I was winding that down, I started the agency because I wanted to help others cash. Well, help others, but I want to get some cash to replace that money. Yeah.
Escaping the Drift with John Gafford
From Chaos to Podcast Success: Mike C-Roc's Journey of Transformation and Innovation
It's worth doing. It's worth doing for money. Look, I had to, you know, sometimes when you make a move like this, like you said, it's courageous, man. Like I wake up some mornings during that time, dude, what are you doing? Like, what is like, you have a license. You, this is what you're used to. You're comfortable. Why are you doing all these thoughts would run through my head.
Escaping the Drift with John Gafford
From Chaos to Podcast Success: Mike C-Roc's Journey of Transformation and Innovation
And I just kept telling myself, keep going, dude, just keep going. And very shortly after that, it started to like snowball. And I was like, holy, this is working. And then when you're doing a startup, you got to figure out pricing, you got to figure out your offers, your packages, and then optimize at all times and then raise prices and see how far you can go based on the value you're delivering.
Escaping the Drift with John Gafford
From Chaos to Podcast Success: Mike C-Roc's Journey of Transformation and Innovation
And the quality of clients gets better when you optimize everything. And so over the last three years, that's what we've been doing. We've been just figuring out how to optimize everything, optimize fulfillment, So that was the arc, and now we're launching that one podcast tour to do more promotion and get involved with more people in person, travel the country more, and just get known.
Escaping the Drift with John Gafford
From Chaos to Podcast Success: Mike C-Roc's Journey of Transformation and Innovation
So we have an onboarding call with them to find out their vision, their mission, where they are currently, because we want to meet them where they are and then take them to the next level. So we find out all that information, whether they've been on podcasts, what's their strategy currently. And then we just share with them what I've done, what I'm currently doing. And then we just...
Escaping the Drift with John Gafford
From Chaos to Podcast Success: Mike C-Roc's Journey of Transformation and Innovation
dial in a great press kit for them because we know what podcast hosts look at and like and then we just uh we create a uh a roster of shows to introduce them to and it's very hyper intentional and then we just get them you know warm warm connections and we try not to cold pitch ever sometimes we have to depend on the client but try not to cold pitch and we get them warm connections and then they say hey yeah john would like to have you on the show here's his link
Escaping the Drift with John Gafford
From Chaos to Podcast Success: Mike C-Roc's Journey of Transformation and Innovation
And they get booked on the show.
Escaping the Drift with John Gafford
From Chaos to Podcast Success: Mike C-Roc's Journey of Transformation and Innovation
A hundred percent. We first started, I would work with anybody just to see. You have to do right. Cause you have to. And then very, very slowly it started to evolve into a situation where we became exclusive. Yeah, I don't just work with anybody, not at all. And if we get somebody that pays us and we find out that they're not aligned, we just give them their money back and move on. Yeah.
Escaping the Drift with John Gafford
From Chaos to Podcast Success: Mike C-Roc's Journey of Transformation and Innovation
Because I don't, yes, 100%. Who's your ideal client? What's your avatar of that? Well, ideally, I'd like to have somebody that's been on podcasts before, but they just don't want to have that time and attention directed towards researching new shows, reach out to people, and they don't want to hire internally because they...
Escaping the Drift with John Gafford
From Chaos to Podcast Success: Mike C-Roc's Journey of Transformation and Innovation
And my mom worked for DuPont for years and then took early retirement and became a nurse. Okay.
Escaping the Drift with John Gafford
From Chaos to Podcast Success: Mike C-Roc's Journey of Transformation and Innovation
the way we structured it is you couldn't hire a VA, a virtual assistant from overseas for the same amount of money with the expertise and the network and the systems of process we have. So I want to enter, basically, you know how some people have like fractional CEOs, fractional CMOs. We want to be that
Escaping the Drift with John Gafford
From Chaos to Podcast Success: Mike C-Roc's Journey of Transformation and Innovation
Look, I was a loan officer and I had so many deals coming that I couldn't take anymore. And then I had delays, closing delays, because I didn't know how to scale. I didn't know how to delegate. So no, 100%. And just basically structured the same way I did in the mortgage business, where we would have certain processors and assistants handling a certain number of loans. They'd have a pipeline.
Escaping the Drift with John Gafford
From Chaos to Podcast Success: Mike C-Roc's Journey of Transformation and Innovation
Two separate careers. Cool. Lots of brothers and sisters in the house? Yeah. I'm the oldest of eight with broken family. Oh, my gosh. Broken family, though. So, like, it was never any more than four in a house. Oh, wow. So...
Escaping the Drift with John Gafford
From Chaos to Podcast Success: Mike C-Roc's Journey of Transformation and Innovation
And then we call them pods. We set up pods. And then we just have them. So we do the same now is we have pods. Clients get a team. That team works on that pod with clients. And then everything we do, we document. One of my favorite books is,
Escaping the Drift with John Gafford
From Chaos to Podcast Success: Mike C-Roc's Journey of Transformation and Innovation
which basically lays out what I've already done in the past, but I never really documented it was Dan Martell's buy back your time where everything you do, you document it, you shoot a video on it and then you document it. And then that way you can replicate it. You can bring somebody in.
Escaping the Drift with John Gafford
From Chaos to Podcast Success: Mike C-Roc's Journey of Transformation and Innovation
It just, they don't know how to do the podcast booking side or anything, but they know how to follow a checklist. Yeah. And you create a checklist and they follow the checklist and they know they've done the job.
Escaping the Drift with John Gafford
From Chaos to Podcast Success: Mike C-Roc's Journey of Transformation and Innovation
And you're setting them up for failure. Dude, it's crazy. So we want to set people up for success. So how do you do that? Well, you bring them in and make it as easy a transition as possible and then get in things on a gradient scale and work them up into more difficult things. But you have everything laid out like a blueprint or a step by step. Yeah.
Escaping the Drift with John Gafford
From Chaos to Podcast Success: Mike C-Roc's Journey of Transformation and Innovation
They just, they're just guided into the business so that their comfort level gets better and better as they go. Yeah. And they have confidence building, you know, and they can have quick wins when they come working. Yeah. Well, so let's talk about that. That's interesting too. How do you hire? What's your hiring process like? So,
Escaping the Drift with John Gafford
From Chaos to Podcast Success: Mike C-Roc's Journey of Transformation and Innovation
Well, basically what we've done so far is we've got two Filipino VAs that help us out. Todd is the sales calls and oversees the booking department. I have an ops manager and she came with me from the mortgage company. So I try to look through my network. Yeah. And that's mainly what I like to do is add from my network from the past. We have my son.
Escaping the Drift with John Gafford
From Chaos to Podcast Success: Mike C-Roc's Journey of Transformation and Innovation
I like to help young people out and teach them the game. My son, my ops manager's daughter works with us.
Escaping the Drift with John Gafford
From Chaos to Podcast Success: Mike C-Roc's Journey of Transformation and Innovation
Yeah. Yeah. uh he's 18. my son's 16. that's who booked you that's who booked you on this oh yeah yeah yeah yeah because we just shown the ropes right yeah um but but from here really like i like to look at contracting i don't like to have w-2 employees really i like to contract out and then and then teach them how to have set themselves up in llc and have their own little business
Escaping the Drift with John Gafford
From Chaos to Podcast Success: Mike C-Roc's Journey of Transformation and Innovation
Like, there's nothing better for me than to bring somebody in, teach them the ropes, and then have them get other business too and then explode so I have to go find somebody else.
Escaping the Drift with John Gafford
From Chaos to Podcast Success: Mike C-Roc's Journey of Transformation and Innovation
I don't want to deal with that shit anymore.
Escaping the Drift with John Gafford
From Chaos to Podcast Success: Mike C-Roc's Journey of Transformation and Innovation
Yeah.
Escaping the Drift with John Gafford
From Chaos to Podcast Success: Mike C-Roc's Journey of Transformation and Innovation
like i can teach somebody any business i can't teach somebody how to be smart i mean i've had old dogs trying to teach them new tricks i've had uh bang my head against the wall like people and then you know in the mortgage real estate business you had the phase where people were getting big signing bonuses and i couldn't do anything to keep them yeah because there were there were some loan officers being offered 500 to a million dollar signing bonuses just to come over to
Escaping the Drift with John Gafford
From Chaos to Podcast Success: Mike C-Roc's Journey of Transformation and Innovation
WM rocket. Yeah. Any of those. Yeah. And I was just like, man, this is crazy. And I couldn't argue with them. No. Why wouldn't you take that? Dude, you have to do it. They know they can always come back, you know, you know, so I, I just, I, that was the part of the business I didn't like, but yeah, now I, I, Brand new. Nobody's done this. What we're doing right now, the way we're doing it. Yeah.
Escaping the Drift with John Gafford
From Chaos to Podcast Success: Mike C-Roc's Journey of Transformation and Innovation
And I just get real creative and try different things and make it go.
Escaping the Drift with John Gafford
From Chaos to Podcast Success: Mike C-Roc's Journey of Transformation and Innovation
Well, early because I don't remember my parents ever together. So I came from a lot of brokenness, like a lot, like drug addicts, alcoholic, anxiety, depression, divorce, child support, custody battles. And you had step parents into the mix and their agendas, not getting along with people and just witnessing and watching all this stuff as a kid.
Escaping the Drift with John Gafford
From Chaos to Podcast Success: Mike C-Roc's Journey of Transformation and Innovation
Yeah.
Escaping the Drift with John Gafford
From Chaos to Podcast Success: Mike C-Roc's Journey of Transformation and Innovation
In the first place. Well, because where I came from and brokenness, I witnessed, I mentioned earlier, I was very observant as a young kid and I witnessed the people around me that were dealing with alcohol problems or prescription drug addiction, or they would always tell a story. It was always based on their past. Yeah. Right. Of why they were being the way they were right now.
Escaping the Drift with John Gafford
From Chaos to Podcast Success: Mike C-Roc's Journey of Transformation and Innovation
And I said, you can't, I just, it was so obvious to me. You can't see that you're creating this life that you're living right now. It's like, it was almost comical to me at a young, at a young age. And I would call them out on it and they would get like pissed. They would try to argue and deny. And I'm like, when you know something, even as a kid, like when you know something, you know something.
Escaping the Drift with John Gafford
From Chaos to Podcast Success: Mike C-Roc's Journey of Transformation and Innovation
Tooth fairy is not real, buddy. Come on, man. And so I knew that that was what was happening. So I started realizing, wait, wait a minute. If you tell a bad story about your past, you must be able to tell a story about the future and then go live into that. And so that's what I started doing as a kid. I was like, I'm going to do this. I'm going to do that.
Escaping the Drift with John Gafford
From Chaos to Podcast Success: Mike C-Roc's Journey of Transformation and Innovation
And creating these visions and then executing upon them. And I was seeing results and I was like, wow. But also anytime I saw a setback, a discouragement, I'll tell you one story real quick. So when I was living with my dad, I moved in with him and his new wife when I was 10 years old. Was it 10? No, it was eight. Eight years old.
Escaping the Drift with John Gafford
From Chaos to Podcast Success: Mike C-Roc's Journey of Transformation and Innovation
And very quickly I realized it wasn't an environment conducive for success. My stepmom was jealous of my mom, my dad's side of the family. She was mentally abusive, verbally abusive. It was bad. And I had threats coming my way as a kid. I realized after a few years, that I had an option to get out, and I shouldn't be in this situation. So my mom filed court papers to get me back to move with her.
Escaping the Drift with John Gafford
From Chaos to Podcast Success: Mike C-Roc's Journey of Transformation and Innovation
And I didn't say anything to my dad until he got the papers delivered to him. I came home from school one day, and he said, what's this paper here that says you want to move back with your mom? And my dad was Mason. He had a...
Escaping the Drift with John Gafford
From Chaos to Podcast Success: Mike C-Roc's Journey of Transformation and Innovation
pretty well off my mom not so much and my mom was moving on to her third marriage and all this stuff and so you would think that that wouldn't be the spot that you would want to go yeah but there was love there there's no love here yeah right and so he can't he confronted me and i said yeah i want to move back with my mom there's no discussion need to be had he said all right go back to your room
Escaping the Drift with John Gafford
From Chaos to Podcast Success: Mike C-Roc's Journey of Transformation and Innovation
So I went back to my room, waited for him, and he said, hey, you know what? Now, my dad was a, he was my hero. He had these big forearms and rough hands, hard worker. And he always had a wad of $100 bills in his pocket all the time. Seems it's a very Italian Philly thing to have. He'd show us money all the time. Benjamin Franklin was like, no, that was awesome. And I always won a lot of those.
Escaping the Drift with John Gafford
From Chaos to Podcast Success: Mike C-Roc's Journey of Transformation and Innovation
I mean, ever since I can remember, I thought it was normal. Yeah. So, yeah, I mean, like... I can tell you, eight years old, I was a really keen observer of human beings and human behavior. And so I've always been known as being pretty grown up and mature.
Escaping the Drift with John Gafford
From Chaos to Podcast Success: Mike C-Roc's Journey of Transformation and Innovation
Well, he came back in the room when he confronted me and he pulled that wad of $100 bills out. He peeled one off and he crumpled it up and he threw it at me. He said, here, you're going to need this when you're living on the streets with your mother then one day. And I was like, Cal, what did I just do? Did I make a mistake? All these thoughts go. At eight years old. No, I was 10 at this point.
Escaping the Drift with John Gafford
From Chaos to Podcast Success: Mike C-Roc's Journey of Transformation and Innovation
All right. Now, still. Still, 10 years old. Yeah, man. Not exactly the seasoned vet at 10. No, but I said, you know, what did I just do? And then all of a sudden it came to me. Wait a minute, dude. You're not going to need that money. Like, you're not going to need that money. Like, let's show him. This is like stuff running through my head, man.
Escaping the Drift with John Gafford
From Chaos to Podcast Success: Mike C-Roc's Journey of Transformation and Innovation
I'm always talking to myself, by the way, ever since I can remember. And I'm like, come on, dude, let's go. Let's rock now. And so I basically used that scene for my life all the way through high school, college, playing football, all that stuff. Anytime I needed it, I just fed off that. That was a fuel. It was fuel, right? Yeah. I didn't understand what I was really doing. I was subconscious.
Escaping the Drift with John Gafford
From Chaos to Podcast Success: Mike C-Roc's Journey of Transformation and Innovation
Well, when I hit my 40s and I started like really working on myself and find out who I am and what I've been through and where I'm going to go, I started to realize this concept, like this rocket fuel law. I was like, what have I been doing all my life that's been like creating this success?
Escaping the Drift with John Gafford
From Chaos to Podcast Success: Mike C-Roc's Journey of Transformation and Innovation
And I realized that if you take everything that comes your way and you have a choice, two choices, one fuel tank or trunk, fuel tank or trunk, And it eliminates chaos. Good analogy. Eliminates chaos. Like chaos comes from when you have too many choices. Binary decision. It's in a tank or it's in a trunk. Trunk weighs you down, slows you down. Tank, convert, rocket fuel, come unstoppable.
Escaping the Drift with John Gafford
From Chaos to Podcast Success: Mike C-Roc's Journey of Transformation and Innovation
And I just became, I was like, oh shit, this is like the way, this is like a law, rocket fuel law. And so I just wrote a book about my story and all the instances of that law. And then during that time, I ran into Grant Cardone. I read the 10X rule and I was like, I vibe with this guy a little bit, this message. And, uh, and then I got him to write the Ford.
Escaping the Drift with John Gafford
From Chaos to Podcast Success: Mike C-Roc's Journey of Transformation and Innovation
I said, while I was writing the book that I was going to get him to write the Ford because his story and a lot of people have the story, right? Yeah. But his story with his dad dying when he's 10, all this stuff, it just resonated with me of how he used that as fuel. And, uh, So I got him to write the forward for the book right when he was doing Undercover Billionaire. And just I see this story.
Escaping the Drift with John Gafford
From Chaos to Podcast Success: Mike C-Roc's Journey of Transformation and Innovation
You have the story, I'm sure. I've seen the story so many times now. It's like it's just like John Maxwell has his leadership laws. This is the rocket fuel law.
Escaping the Drift with John Gafford
From Chaos to Podcast Success: Mike C-Roc's Journey of Transformation and Innovation
Unstoppable.
Escaping the Drift with John Gafford
From Chaos to Podcast Success: Mike C-Roc's Journey of Transformation and Innovation
Everybody's got their own. And you can't compare it to someone else's. It's like a human being's dealing with some kind of tragedy or trauma or conflict. And then it's like, what do you do with that? Obviously, you've figured out how to put it in a tank, not the trunk.
Escaping the Drift with John Gafford
From Chaos to Podcast Success: Mike C-Roc's Journey of Transformation and Innovation
Well, I went to a Division III school, so I was never big enough. Okay. I was fast and had a head on me. But, yeah, I played in college basketball. Did you finish school? No, you didn't.
Escaping the Drift with John Gafford
From Chaos to Podcast Success: Mike C-Roc's Journey of Transformation and Innovation
I was talking to a CPA that works with billionaires, right? His company deals with, like, probably most of the billionaires in the United States. Yeah. And he said not one of his clients has been to a situation where they didn't lose everything at least once, most of them twice. Yeah, you're not trying hard enough. And so that's another thing.
Escaping the Drift with John Gafford
From Chaos to Podcast Success: Mike C-Roc's Journey of Transformation and Innovation
Listen, I still deal with it today. I mean, I still have times where things like that are happening, but I always say like now it's like so much quicker. I don't have any emotion tied to it now. It's so much quicker. Like, oh, that's going into tank. Yes. The worse it is, the more octane it has.
Escaping the Drift with John Gafford
From Chaos to Podcast Success: Mike C-Roc's Journey of Transformation and Innovation
Well, and here's the other thing too. Um, at the end of the day, like a lot of times we want to be the hero, but when you take that weight off your shoulders and as a believer, like I just, I give all the like credit to God, man. I mean, and it's takes, it takes the pressure off of you. So I've gone through these transitions and I hit 40 started to realize like, it's not about me.
Escaping the Drift with John Gafford
From Chaos to Podcast Success: Mike C-Roc's Journey of Transformation and Innovation
That made a difference too. Like, Now it's about, okay, what can I do to help other people? And then everything that goes good, just give credit somewhere else. Don't take credit for it.
Escaping the Drift with John Gafford
From Chaos to Podcast Success: Mike C-Roc's Journey of Transformation and Innovation
Yeah.
Escaping the Drift with John Gafford
From Chaos to Podcast Success: Mike C-Roc's Journey of Transformation and Innovation
12.
Escaping the Drift with John Gafford
From Chaos to Podcast Success: Mike C-Roc's Journey of Transformation and Innovation
And I didn't think it was possible for me to sit down there. So there's a balance there between like giving them everything like that and never letting them sit up in a nosebleed because they don't ever know that it's possible for them.
Escaping the Drift with John Gafford
From Chaos to Podcast Success: Mike C-Roc's Journey of Transformation and Innovation
So I believe, I think I lean more on that side of showing them what's possible for them, but also knowing that it's, hey, this is me that did this, not you, right? You didn't get this. You don't deserve this. You're getting it from me, okay? But then the other part of it is I'm very, very hard on my kids at home. I don't beat them or anything like that. No, no, no, no. You have high expectations.
Escaping the Drift with John Gafford
From Chaos to Podcast Success: Mike C-Roc's Journey of Transformation and Innovation
Uh, there's more, I'll go through seasons where I'll, I'll regret it. But at the end of the day now, um, when I got to college, I was playing football, but I realized that, That it like, I wasn't going to go anywhere after college with football. Yeah. So then I saw parties. I saw parties I'd never seen before coming from a small town.
Escaping the Drift with John Gafford
From Chaos to Podcast Success: Mike C-Roc's Journey of Transformation and Innovation
High expectation standards to the point where they're like, you know, you're not like... I'm not trying to be their friend. It hurts me sometimes because I'm like, man, he's pissed at me. Or she's pissed at me or whatever. And it's like...
Escaping the Drift with John Gafford
From Chaos to Podcast Success: Mike C-Roc's Journey of Transformation and Innovation
I created my son an LLC. So he's a contractor for our company. And so I'm showing him how to do the taxes. I'm showing him how to take advantage of every tax write-off you can as an LLC. Like all the loopholes and all the tax advantages. But also showing him how to get a check-in. X amount goes into your savings for taxes. Now, I tell him to put 40% away in tax account, right?
Escaping the Drift with John Gafford
From Chaos to Podcast Success: Mike C-Roc's Journey of Transformation and Innovation
He's not going to have to pay that in a day because of all the way the money shakes out, but he'll still have money sitting there. And then he'll be like, oh, I have extra money now. So I teach him that stuff. I teach my daughter. My daughter started businesses already.
Escaping the Drift with John Gafford
From Chaos to Podcast Success: Mike C-Roc's Journey of Transformation and Innovation
I'll give her a hundred bucks and I'll tell her, look, I'll give you another hundred bucks if you can double that money in two weeks.
Escaping the Drift with John Gafford
From Chaos to Podcast Success: Mike C-Roc's Journey of Transformation and Innovation
I say outside of Philly, but when I went to high school, it was a small suburban, like not suburban, even rural town in Maryland, actually. And when I got to college, I saw like girls, the types of girls that were there at the parties. And it's just, that's what caught my attention. Yeah. And so I went down that road, that road of parties. And that was the chase. I was on chase for the good time.
Escaping the Drift with John Gafford
From Chaos to Podcast Success: Mike C-Roc's Journey of Transformation and Innovation
You're 10. And he's speaking the language. Do you hear him? Yes. He's tossing and all that, but he's speaking the language. You're 10 and you made more money than these people. Dude, it's. Wait a minute, but here's the thing. I realized something. What's that? I don't know if this is true or not, but some just observations are starting to tell me different things.
Escaping the Drift with John Gafford
From Chaos to Podcast Success: Mike C-Roc's Journey of Transformation and Innovation
I truly believe now, I'm starting to believe this, that we come into this world and we come into a body, but the spirit or whatever it is that operates us is old. It's got information. You heard of old souls and all these different things, right? Yeah, of course. I don't know, man. I'm a Christian and everything, and I don't know how the Bible really spells this out effectively or clearly.
Escaping the Drift with John Gafford
From Chaos to Podcast Success: Mike C-Roc's Journey of Transformation and Innovation
But there's got to be something there that these people come in, and it's not about how old your physical body is. There's something more to that. Because you see some people not just in business, but like athletes or musicians or – It's just there's something there, man.
Escaping the Drift with John Gafford
From Chaos to Podcast Success: Mike C-Roc's Journey of Transformation and Innovation
I don't know if there's past lives, man.
Escaping the Drift with John Gafford
From Chaos to Podcast Success: Mike C-Roc's Journey of Transformation and Innovation
Yeah. Well, I don't know whether it's the spirit or if the cells have memories from the cells came from or something, but there's something there. People know how to make money like naturally. Some of them, some people it's, it's wild.
Escaping the Drift with John Gafford
From Chaos to Podcast Success: Mike C-Roc's Journey of Transformation and Innovation
So when I was in a mortgage business, we worked with an organization called Believe in Tomorrow. And they had a basically an organization that would take people that had terminal ill kids and give them vacations, the whole family at the beach where we live.
Escaping the Drift with John Gafford
From Chaos to Podcast Success: Mike C-Roc's Journey of Transformation and Innovation
and then i got out of the mortgage business and then um when i took that switch now i'm going to building the business everything's going to the business and then we're just helping entrepreneurs and focusing on giving connections and all that and then i'm going to get back into working with that same organization because it's just the best yeah to me it's like to see the families and the kids when they can escape the stress believe in tomorrow is the organization that they have um
Escaping the Drift with John Gafford
From Chaos to Podcast Success: Mike C-Roc's Journey of Transformation and Innovation
College and courses on that, that was always easy to me. What was the hustle? I was bored by it.
Escaping the Drift with John Gafford
From Chaos to Podcast Success: Mike C-Roc's Journey of Transformation and Innovation
No, not until I dropped out. I got in the restaurant business while I was in college. That was when Cocktail came out. Were you a flair bartender? Not a flair bartender.
Escaping the Drift with John Gafford
From Chaos to Podcast Success: Mike C-Roc's Journey of Transformation and Innovation
I had a vision of start my own restaurant and all this. And then when you're in the restaurant business and you start to party to cash business late nights after you're done at the bar, two thirty three o'clock, you're going to a party and then just, you know, it's just not a good place to be. But that's where I ended up, brother.
Escaping the Drift with John Gafford
From Chaos to Podcast Success: Mike C-Roc's Journey of Transformation and Innovation
Why did, why was that bothering you so much?
Escaping the Drift with John Gafford
From Chaos to Podcast Success: Mike C-Roc's Journey of Transformation and Innovation
Right. Didn't care at all. That's, that's the rule, man. Yeah. We always think people care more about us and think about us more than they actually do. Nobody's got their own world, but nobody's thinking about you.
Escaping the Drift with John Gafford
From Chaos to Podcast Success: Mike C-Roc's Journey of Transformation and Innovation
I had a great time. I got to tell you, there were some great times, but there was also, like, it ends up in darkness, man. Yeah. Dark times. Heavy, like... Yeah.
Escaping the Drift with John Gafford
From Chaos to Podcast Success: Mike C-Roc's Journey of Transformation and Innovation
Yeah. And then all your friends that are in college leave go on their mission that they're going on. And you're just like you're left with everybody else. It's just not on a mission. Yeah. Except for the next party. And it's just like miserable.
Escaping the Drift with John Gafford
From Chaos to Podcast Success: Mike C-Roc's Journey of Transformation and Innovation
Oh, yeah.
Escaping the Drift with John Gafford
From Chaos to Podcast Success: Mike C-Roc's Journey of Transformation and Innovation
It's wild here. I got trapped into sales, a sales job in home sales. Yeah. It's not like that, but like, it was like, I got out of college, out of the restaurant business, looking for something. One of my customers at the restaurant said, Hey, why don't you come meet with me one day? And I ended up in an in-home sales job, which is, I looked, I hated it.
Escaping the Drift with John Gafford
From Chaos to Podcast Success: Mike C-Roc's Journey of Transformation and Innovation
But it cut my teeth in a lot of things like building rapport with strangers, presenting. That's where you learn how to sell? Asking for the money. Yeah, all the stuff that goes along with selling, it was in-home sales. That was the first spot. Yeah.
Escaping the Drift with John Gafford
From Chaos to Podcast Success: Mike C-Roc's Journey of Transformation and Innovation
So I was in in-home sales for nine years. And eventually saw my buddies making money in real estate. And I'm like, they can do it. I hate to say that sometimes, but I always say that. Like, dude, if John could do it, I know I could do it. Bro, don't apologize to me. Sorry, my life. But I believe in myself, man. I have a firm belief in myself.
Escaping the Drift with John Gafford
From Chaos to Podcast Success: Mike C-Roc's Journey of Transformation and Innovation
If I see somebody, a human being doing something and I want to do it, I think I can do it. So I saw these guys making money in real estate. And now looking back, they weren't top real estate agents, but they were making more than I was making at the time. Yeah. So I just started asking questions. And that was in 05. Yeah, 05. And I had my real estate license for a year.
Escaping the Drift with John Gafford
From Chaos to Podcast Success: Mike C-Roc's Journey of Transformation and Innovation
I became top listing agent, top selling agent in the first year based on all the hustle and the grind. And I knew how to do. And then I said, you know, I don't want to deal with this driving people around every day and all this stuff. I looked at the guy that I was sending my loans to or my customers to for loans. It was my best friend I grew up with. And I said, dude, I'm coming to work for you.
Escaping the Drift with John Gafford
From Chaos to Podcast Success: Mike C-Roc's Journey of Transformation and Innovation
He said, no, you're not. I said, I'm coming to work for you. Because I was his top referral partner. And he's like, I don't want to lose that. Trust me, I'll make you more money than we're making right now. So I came there, learned the business. I drove an hour and a half each way for five years to go to the office because we didn't have a lot of remote access then.
Escaping the Drift with John Gafford
From Chaos to Podcast Success: Mike C-Roc's Journey of Transformation and Innovation
It was just coming on where you could tap into your computer, but it was like... The technology just wasn't there. So I worked in a boiler room and 06, I guess it was November of 06, I started in the mortgage business right before the crash. Amen, brother. We were doing all the loans, like the two-year arm loans, subprime, all that stuff. And mostly refis at the time.
Escaping the Drift with John Gafford
From Chaos to Podcast Success: Mike C-Roc's Journey of Transformation and Innovation
And the first year, cracked six figures first time ever. And then I just went up from there. Eventually started managing. I always aim to up level. I'm always like, okay, who's at the next level? What are they doing? What do they know that I don't know? Because I came to find out that anything that you want in life, if you want to up-level, you're not getting something that you want.
Escaping the Drift with John Gafford
From Chaos to Podcast Success: Mike C-Roc's Journey of Transformation and Innovation
You're moving too slow. You're insecure about something. It all stems from a lack of knowledge of something. And that gave me control. And every time I want to do something, I'm like, okay, what do they know that I don't know? Let me go find it out. And that's what I did. And eventually ended up having branches up and down the East Coast.
Escaping the Drift with John Gafford
From Chaos to Podcast Success: Mike C-Roc's Journey of Transformation and Innovation
Yeah. Like, well, you know what? I was very lucky because the guy that owned that company is still a friend of mine. He was a mentor to me.
Escaping the Drift with John Gafford
From Chaos to Podcast Success: Mike C-Roc's Journey of Transformation and Innovation
You got to think I was 21 years old, I think. And he was showing me the ropes. Like, you know, one of the biggest lessons I can remember him as a mentor was It's like we had a problem customer and they were complaining and they were just complaining. And he was like, I'm just going to give them their money back. And I'm like, why? We got a contract. You don't have to give the money back.
Escaping the Drift with John Gafford
From Chaos to Podcast Success: Mike C-Roc's Journey of Transformation and Innovation
I didn't get that concept. Yeah. Get rid of the problem. Yeah. Get rid of the problem. It's less expensive in the long run. I didn't get it at that time, but that's a lesson I still use today. Sometimes you just have people that aren't aligned with you and it causes so much drama, energy. You know, you can't, your creativity gets sucked. And it's just like, just get rid of the problem. Yeah.
Escaping the Drift with John Gafford
From Chaos to Podcast Success: Mike C-Roc's Journey of Transformation and Innovation
It's not worth it. So, yeah. So I working for someone, I worked for a guy that was like a mentor to me. And so I didn't feel like it at the time that it was like a job. Right.
Escaping the Drift with John Gafford
From Chaos to Podcast Success: Mike C-Roc's Journey of Transformation and Innovation
Yeah. And then when I got in the mortgage business, you know, as a loan officer or real estate agent, you're kind of on your own. So it wasn't much. And then when I started my branch and we had success, we kind of ran the show, even though it was under somebody else's platform, ran the show. Yeah. And they left us alone and we told them what we want.
Escaping the Drift with John Gafford
From Chaos to Podcast Success: Mike C-Roc's Journey of Transformation and Innovation
And I think because in that business, they're so afraid you're going to go somewhere else once you're producing. Well, that's what I was going to say. They kiss your ass. When you started building that. I was respectful, though. Like, I wasn't holding anybody over a bucket. Yeah. I never did that. I had partners and people on my team that did, but I just never operated that way.
Escaping the Drift with John Gafford
From Chaos to Podcast Success: Mike C-Roc's Journey of Transformation and Innovation
This is why I got out of the mortgage business. It's too commoditized. Toxic, commoditized. I just, and it's not sexy enough for me, but anyway, that's another story. But I just, I couldn't stand it. And the margins like compression and, To me, I just didn't want to be involved with that.
Escaping the Drift with John Gafford
From Chaos to Podcast Success: Mike C-Roc's Journey of Transformation and Innovation
Hey, listen, I got to tell you, I flew five hours to come just to see you.
Escaping the Drift with John Gafford
From Chaos to Podcast Success: Mike C-Roc's Journey of Transformation and Innovation
I wanted to be involved with a business that I could separate myself and then nobody could find me down the street.
Escaping the Drift with John Gafford
From Chaos to Podcast Success: Mike C-Roc's Journey of Transformation and Innovation
So what was that like? First of all, I never loved it. I'll tell you that right now. When you drop out of college, you're like, okay, I want to be successful. Where can I make money now? And where can I grow? And where can I, you know, stack? It wasn't about where can I be fulfilled? Where can I make impact in the world? It wasn't any of that. It was like, I don't know.
Escaping the Drift with John Gafford
From Chaos to Podcast Success: Mike C-Roc's Journey of Transformation and Innovation
It's not survival, but because it was beyond survival, but I wanted to thrive. Where can I thrive? And I started making money and it started becoming a trap. And I just started to feel like I was not just trapped, but like, this is my life, man. This is the way it's going to have to be. So I'm going to build this. And the further along it got, the more money I made, the more miserable I got.
Escaping the Drift with John Gafford
From Chaos to Podcast Success: Mike C-Roc's Journey of Transformation and Innovation
I'd come home, beautiful wife, married 21 years, two healthy kids, house on the water, all that stuff. I'd come home and I'm conflicted. Like, why am I so upset? Like, what is this?