Morley Conn

I would say every walk and type of investor, institutional investor is using ETFs in some sort of way in the marketplace, for sure.

The retail will use ETFs as the component part to their portfolio strategy.

It is the core.

So once someone adopts ETFs, and I can't say this across the board, but I would say it's a general rule that we see.

Once they start using ETFs as their core strategy, it becomes slowly over time, it becomes the full strategy.

And they'll use it for almost everything.

And then not everyone does that, but it certainly is more used in that way.

Whereas I would say institutions, there's a lot more tools that they have at their disposal.

They'll use total return swaps.

They will use futures.

They're going to use all sorts of other different structures to invest.

So the ETF is just one component that they will use to invest in markets.

There are institutions that will look at the cost.

between putting on total return swaps versus futures versus having on ETFs, putting ETFs as their exposure.

They will look at the cost for these various tools and they will decide which one they want to allocate to.

A really anecdotal, interesting point, guys, in the last little while, last few weeks, ahead of all of these big AI-related and SpaceX IPOs, the cost of synthetic index,

type exposure has gone sky high through the roof.

Why?

Because there's a lot of funding, pre-funding that's being asked for by institutions, by all sorts of different financial service companies in the marketplace.

There's a lot of borrowing that's being done right now to get various index exposures and to get exposure to