Morley Conn

some of these new IPOs.

And so the cost of them like benchmark money market spreads of 45 like CEDAW or in the US SOFR plus

45 to 50, up to like 100 basis points over.

The total return swaps, just so that I'm not throwing jargon here, these total return swaps are how investors, large institutional investors, will get equity index exposure without putting out cash.

What they'll do is...

they will buy a swap and they will get a return on an index.

And in return, they will pay for that by paying some spread above a funding rate.

So that's just one tool that they will use in lieu of ETFs.

So lots of different tools at their disposal.

It's really interesting.

We talked about before how retail is so prevalent in the Canadian space.

The Canadian market is somewhere, actively managed products are somewhere between 25 and 30% of the Canadian market.

Whereas in the US market,

They're only about 8% to not even 10%.

And that's that $14.7 trillion market.

That's where all the activity has been in the last little while, or an inordinate amount of the activity in the U.S.

market.

But traditionally...

The US market, because of it's also as well, it's institutional bent, investors in the US market were really looking traditionally for beta exposure.

They were looking for market, pure market index exposure.